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The one thing I currently DISLIKE about Wildstar

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Noxite, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. Noxite

    Noxite New Cupcake

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    Hi!

    Okay, don't take the title wrongly! That was just sort of a 'Let's make it sound really controversial so people click on it' thing.

    Now, I freaking love where Wildstar is going, I can't wait for it to come out, I'm definitely going to waste my life and destroy my health playing this game and it's pretty much going to be 'My next MMO'.

    A little background check; I've played many MMOs and games over my time and WoW was one of them... my favourite in fact. I played it for around 6 years, between Vanilla and quitting at the end of WotLK. Just one of the reasons was because of it's scale and lore. It always felt so magical exploring all the new areas and waltzing through these grand mountainous regions.

    I feel one of the biggest aspects of WoW was that it literally felt like a MASSIVE, seamless and immersive world. - I could go into explaining why the world felt so good to traverse, but I won't for the sake of TL;DR....

    So, to my point;

    I was on a bit of a 'researching' spree on all-things-Wildstar and came across a video where Chad Moore (Lead Creative Writer sounding extremely tired) walks you through the very first questing zone from start to finish.

    Now... hold on... What do you mean 'finish?'

    This is where my face went from :) to :(

    The immersion of a game breaks as soon as the player begins to understand the logical system behind the design.

    Right at the end of the zone, as the player is about to leave it, this pops up: (Skip to 35:35)

    A map that shows you the path you made, the quests you completed, the secrets you found, etc, etc.

    This might not SEEM all that bad. But think about it;
    What does it do to immersion? What does it do to your perception of the scale of the world as a whole?
    It turns the areas from a living world into an 'objective farm'. You no longer see the characteristics of these areas anymore, you no longer look at the map or terrain design, you ignore it, and you just look at flashing UI elements and see numbers out of numbers (21/24, 12/15, 16/16 etc) and as soon as those numbers are maxed, that area is greyed out in your mind and the zone loses it's characteristics.

    I don't want to see your systematic design to your questing zones. As convenient to the player as these things are, don't forget that WoW was at it's best when the designs were so primitive and over time, as things became more convenient and convenient for the player, it became a mind numbing objective farming simulator.

    The players and the community will adapt to inconvenience and that's what makes things fun. MMOs are best because of the community, convenience kills the need for it.

    Hope I can start an interesting discussion here and thankyou for reading ;)

    - Noxite
  2. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Wait, you mean different players are attracted to and rewarded by different things?! What blasphemy is this?!

    Whether its a detriment for you is immaterial as that is not aimed at you.
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  3. Noxite

    Noxite New Cupcake

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    Sorry, but I think you've missed the point. I'm not talking about my personal preferences. I'm talking about what designs like this can do to the player's perception of the game world and how it can damage it.
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  4. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    you'd have to explain further, if another player prefers to look at this map, how are you impacted by them doing it?
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  5. Noxite

    Noxite New Cupcake

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    The fact that it's there makes the game world feel smaller. As I said, the player adapts to the game, if it's there, I won't be able to resist from using it because it's sitting there in my thoughts when I venture through the world. I have this thought that there's a UI that's trying to spoonfeed me.
    If it's not there, again, I adapt; It's no longer in my thoughts, the game world feels bigger, I put the burden on myself to explore the world and memorize it. - Memorizing it becomes easier too! Because as I said; you study the terrain, not the UI.

    Did the Guild Wars 2 or FFXIV:ARR world feel as memorable as WoW's did? Certainly not for me, because I spent half my time staring at a bloody UI and not the actual real colors, themes and styles of the world around me.

    I'm saying 'I', thinking about myself as a player in the game and how the game makes me think. It would be nice to hear how you would feel with systems such as this and what are the pros and cons of it towards your attitude as a 'player'.

    What makes you want to play it? Basically.
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  6. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    A map pops up in the end? Oh wow, how terrible.

    Ever wonder what a game really is? A set of objectives waiting to be met. Completing them is part of the joy of the game.

    Also, immersion is incredibly relative. To some it's even irrelevant. "Community" being the best part of MMOs is also subjective. I like being in a digital world with others, but it's far from being the most satisfying feature of MMOs for me.
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  7. Noxite

    Noxite New Cupcake

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    Yes, I addressed that with:


    So what is? Why do you enjoy games? What's your favourite game and why?
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  8. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    If you already know, then it sounds like you're complaining about games being games. I don't play games to escape real life. I prefer to fix my personal problems, not escape them. I play games to have fun.

    How are my favorite games/features relevant to this discussion?
  9. Cogburn

    Cogburn Cupcake-About-Town

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    This can easily be fixed by putting a toggle option for the path/quests/secrets markers on the map in the settings. People who want it have it and people who don't can get rid of it. Everyone wins.
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  10. Noxite

    Noxite New Cupcake

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    No. There are many different ways of hiding the way a game is systematically designed, going the other way and trying to publicize the design so that the player completely sees and understands it is an ugly way of treating it.

    I don't really understand why you mentioned personal problems and escaping them, so I'll ignore that.

    They are very relevant because I think you're not looking deep enough into what makes you enjoy games, so I asked to provoke you into thinking what aspects of your favorite game made it for you and perhaps reflect on what you're saying in this discussion.
    Nunchi likes this.
  11. Zinn

    Zinn Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think its a pretty cool feature as i love data and information. But if one does not like it they do not have to use it.

    But whether we like it or do not like it I am not sure if it is relevant. The video you posted was from 2 years and 2 months ago and I cannot recall hearing about this feature since or seeing it in other videos showing the end of the Exile starting area. So it may be a moot point.

    Oh and welcome to to the WSC forums Noxite. :)
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  12. Laban

    Laban Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think it's a pretty neat feature. Without it I would most likely just go on about questing and explore the occasional area that looked interesting, and once "done" I would just move on to the next zone and never look back. But actually seeing what I have and haven't explored and how many quests I have potentially missed etc would probably make me think twice about going straight to the next zone. I'd probably head back and see what's lurking in those unexplored areas, and maybe take a stab at any unfinished quests if I feel a bit underleveled or just feeling curious about potential rewards and such. And I'm not even a completionist, so that's a pretty good feature by Carbine to make players wanting to explore as much of their game as possible.
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  13. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    I kind of like the idea of the popup that shows me places I've been and haven't been. It lets me know if I may have missed something that I could go back and investigate.

    As for breaking immersion, well. Wildstar is a science fiction based game in terms of technology. Yes, there is magic, but the general notion is that magic is just another kind of science in a way. Such as spellslingers using guns instead of wands.

    Each character is given a Datachron. It's what lets you talk to other NPCs and such. It doesn't really seem to break immersion if the 'datachron' is able to map your character's progress in a region and path they took on a map.
  14. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ok… nope, it does not bother me at all; which was the point that the other posters were also making, that you seem to not be grasping; the like/dislike of this feature is subjective. I don’t really care that it’s there, but I know that there will be players that really like it, just as you really dislike it.

    To be frank I’m really getting tired of these whine post, not because it’s a whine, but because you made no suggestions on how to fix “your” problem (You know, like suggesting that a toggle be put in to turn this function off.); instead you’re trying to persuade the rest of us that it’s our problem as well, and I guess the fix would be to remove it altogether.

    You would be better off trying to persuade the Devs to install a toggle then to try to persuade us that it’s a problem for us.
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  15. HappinessFactory

    HappinessFactory Cupcake

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    I agree with the OP.

    While I do like more data... I don't need to see 0/16 quests complete 0/14 bosses killed and things like that. Suddenly the drive to level up or play the game comes secondary to completing the map objectives.

    In WoW I was okay leaving an annoying quest behind or not finding a random easter egg because I didn't know it was there. But in GW2 (which has a similar system) not having every zone filled out bugs me to no end. The map will keep bugging you like "Hey you missed a spot".

    [Edit] Also doesn't the fog or red polygons in this case give you enough purpose to explore certain zones?
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  16. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    you said -

    but so far that's all you have talked about, that's confusing.

    so you can resist going to an external website which will tell you if you have missed out on anything, but you cant simply hit ESC when the map comes up? but you can resist getting a UI mod to disable this feature if that its not already in the options?...again, confusing. "I have self control, but I don't really"
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  17. GoatSlayrr

    GoatSlayrr Well-Known Cupcake

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    So they've made part of zone completion achievements into a nice animated map.

    Scandalous!
  18. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    I'm pretty sure they have even said there are hidden areas for you to discover on your own, and thats not even talking about the path system.
  19. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    Plus, aren't maps kind of the butter and bread of Explorers?

    What would the explorer path be without maps!? Mappy maps! That...map things.

    It's like, immersion as an Explorer! Find all the secret places! Learn dangerous passages! But, erm. Can't have a map.
  20. CriSPeH

    CriSPeH Cupcake-About-Town

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    Adding dummy tracking stats will drastically change the way people play a game as is evident by K/D ratios.
    Meaningless and trivial numbers that in no way do justice to a players skill or experience but they are looked at by everyone as pure indicators of who is the best.

    I 100%'d GW2 on my first character and can barely remember and of the zones because I didn't care about the environment around me only about getting to the next icon on the map and adding another tick to my map completion. As a result when I tried to do alt characters I was completely sick of the maps and had no desire to explore them anymore because I already knew and had full number proof that I had found everything. The exception were jumping puzzles which were one of the very few things you had to discover on your own.

    In vanilla WoW I don't know how many times I discovered new things on maps I had been on dozens if not hundreds of times. Because I didn't have a little childs scavenger hunt tick box to mark off all the wittle things I have done so I never actually knew when I had found every secret a map had to offer.

    I wont go as far to say that WS will suffer from this because it is in beta and it would be silly to really argue over any features that nobody knows for sure will be in the game. I just hope that if there are map completion stats they will only pertain to the most obvious & basic story driven sections and a good chunk of the world will be left for players to discover on their own over a period of time and not because they wanna be the first nerd with a gold star next to their name.

    tldr: I agree with the OP's point that map completion stats are an added gameplay design that ruined a certain aspect that was found in older games, but it is one of many so don't expect it to go away.
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