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The Targeting System - Discussion!

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Billco, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. Billco

    Billco Cupcake-About-Town

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    So, figured it's time I took the plunge and made a thread. Seen many mentions about this around so lets consolidate.

    They have already announced that we will have the choice between "Tab Targetting" and "Live Targetting" (can't remember proper name will edit when I do)

    Interested to see people's thoughts on this one. I loved the change to Live Targetting when I played Tera for a while, although I'm still not sure if it was just the novelty factor or not. It certainly needed a lot more attention and effort to play, which, while great, meant my play sessions were often shorter due to being worn out.

    Having played MANY mmo's, majority of which being tab targetting, I have to admit I'm somewhat set in my ways and I like many aspects of that targetting system.

    My biggest concern I think, is the balancing issue. I honestly don't see how a tab target player can match up against a live target player. The play styles are just too radically different surely. DPS will vary immensly as will many other factors.

    Thoughts?
  2. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Yeah, I have the same balancing concerns as you have. A tab target player will always have the advantage over aim targeting. We can see that in FPS's with automatic locks.

    So I don't think it will be a choice between the two because of that reason alone. But what then? They have to choose between the two systems, which I find the aim targeting the most fun. I loved it in Tera. It made pvp and pve that much more interesting. Although the slogan in Tera, skills > gear, wasn't completely true. But I blame that on balancing issues and bad skill design.

    There is also the third option, the hybrid, which Carbine already said they go with. I don't know what they exactly have come up with. It is one of the most things I'm looking forward too to find out.

    We already seen that you have to evade attacks from mobs. The threat indicators on the ground make that clear and they told us many times in the gameplay video's. Area of effect kind of skills you have to aim over a bunch of mobs, like the Blizzard spell in WoW. But I don't think they mean that. Maybe skills have a direction, like a Fireball that goes only straight towards the target you have 'tabbed', but can be avoided by the target by stepping sideways. In WoW you see fireballs bend towards a target when they move, which always seemed strange to me.

    The more I think of this, the more I think I will work.

    Edit:
    This gameplay video (http://www.gametrailers.com/gamesco...oper-walkthrough-part-1---game-overview--cam-) shows combat is aim targeted.
  3. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    I wondered about FFT or free form targeting being a novelty that would wear out after a bit as well.

    At first it was so refreshing that I wondered how I could have played a mmo without it. After awhile though I realized it just comes down to preference.

    Honestly, both FFT and Tabbing wind up the same way. It's still the same 1 2 3 4 5 attack pattern, only the delivery system changes.

    My wife hated FFT, I loved it. She was healing I was melee, so we had very different experiences with it.
    I guess my point is that having the choice between the two playstyles (I might even switch between the two based on what class I'm playing) is a good choice for Carbine. It allows for the greatest appeal for both types of players. Want traditional? stick with tabbing. Want an mmo that feels more like a fps? Then FFT might be right for you.

    I do wonder about how WS is going to handle balancing issues between the two styles though. It's a legitimate concern.
  4. Scooter

    Scooter Carbine Studios

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    Chrilin and Black Wolf like this.
  5. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    So I watched that video again and the way I think I understand it is that if you aim target you can hit multiple mobs? Like in a row?

    Is that baked in with a skill? Like a healing spell is always tab target and a fireball always aim. Or do you need to select what system you want to use in the settings and stick with it?
  6. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Wow... A very good video with some answers to questions that have been floating around the forums.

    Thanks Scooter!
  7. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yep... That's the way it looks... I am sure not all skills are aoe capable, but yep multiple targets at once.

    A very good question.
  8. starspun

    starspun Well-Known Cupcake

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    Yes, I think the way it works is that as long as a mob is in a particular ability's line of fire (like the column the Esper was using a lot - there's probably cones, point blank AoEs and ground targeted AoEs too), they'll be struck. I think healing works the same way.

    There's probably a toggle in the options for whether you'd like to use tab targeting or free form targeting, it'd be pretty silly to have someone make an uninformed decision about what targeting system they'd like to use at level 1 and then either have to suck it up or reroll to change.
  9. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm thinking more along the lines of can you switch on the fly or do you have to change things enough where it takes time, kinda like having to respec or something.
  10. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Yeah I meant a toggle of course. But then you get into the balancing problem again.
  11. Frozenoak

    Frozenoak Founding Member

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    I wouldn't be surprised if some skills were tab based and others were free form. You would have a choice when you purchase new skills. It would make for a lot of choices and there would probably be no one best skill. That being said I haven't seen any tab based skills in the demo videos.
  12. starspun

    starspun Well-Known Cupcake

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    The videos from last year's Gamescom used tab based targeting, free form targeting is a new addition that was introduced to us in the Friends & Family Update. You've definitely seen it! ;)
  13. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    After watching the videos from Gamecom tab targeting looks like it's going to be a lot different than in the past. Lots of AOE, lots of areas of control, tons of dodging, dynamic interactions with the environment. I'm not sure the game is going to lend itself very well to the classic tab target playstyle.

    I'm wondering if the two styles of play can coexist equally in the same game.
  14. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    To disappoint the healers: you have to aim your healing spells. Although I got the impression that it will be somewhat different then in Tera. I still have hope it will be fun to do. I really want to give healing a shot again.
  15. Zap-Robo

    Zap-Robo Administrator • King Cupcake

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    Exist, yes. Equally, no.

    Tab targeting will probably fare better against single bosses, enabling you to concentrate on dodging attacks and not needing to aim. Freeform will likely fare better against large groups.
  16. Billco

    Billco Cupcake-About-Town

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    I imagine that it will be very easy to tell at a glance if another player is using tab targetting or not.

    I just hope it doesn't become a gauge on which we are judged. You can't come on this raid unless you use target style X because its that much more efficient.

    As Zap says, there's almost certainly going to be one better than the other in certain situations.
  17. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    That is one of the things I am very afraid of.
    I never had to deal with these types of situations I always min/maxed on my own volition, but I hated the fact that people would exclude someone for having a point in the wrong spot in a talent tree.
    ^^(one example among many)
  18. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    I'm beginning to think, and I could be wrong about this, is that the combination of tab targetting vs. free target is about the spell being used, not that you turn it on or off. For example, A healer has a single target spell that heals for xxx HP, he also has a multi-target spell that shoots in a cross, or a line. That second one can heal for more and hit more people, but it requires more skill to use effectively.

    It wouldn't make sense to have a toggle between all tab target and all free target. It does make sense to have 50% of the skills using tab target and 50% using free target. At least, that's what I'm hoping for :p
  19. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    I really don't think it is a toggle. What I've seen on the videos it is something like that's a hybrid between the two systems. David "Scooter" Bass already said the skills may be aimed or not. Aiming makes sense if you gather or line up monsters. In the videos Jeremy Gaffney says the aiming (and killing more then one monster) gives extra rewards, like experience and such.

    It would be really nice if we can see a video on how it actually works in detail though.
  20. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I never put much thought into combat mechanics, I adapt to whatever is presented, and somehow it has always worked out. But healing that requires twice the skills, attention and computer setup is not going to be fun for the average player.

    D3 combat is easy, except for the inflexibility of camera mode. But the limited number of available abilities does explain why it works so well, no need for hitting keyboard modifiers. Since healing is not an issue, there is no problems there, I could imagine it would be bad though.

    You can easilly fill up 40 hotbar slots with abilities in EQ2 including a crapton of ohh <REDACTED> buttons and remembering every single one of them and having a shortcut on the keyboard for it is not really an option for most. Fortunately their macros simply skip abilities it can't cast, it cast the first ability available and queues the next one available in the macro.

    How does aimed combat work, do you use the mouse for movement, direction, jumping etc. and keyboard for which ability you are using? Or keyboard for movement and mouse for clicking out abilities and turnin?

    Not really sure what it is about :p need a beta test ;-)=

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