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True hybrid play?

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Allstar, May 13, 2013.

  1. M3stro0

    M3stro0 Cupcake

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    Holy Shock and Smite were essentially the same thing, I don't know man it became the term for it on my server.
  2. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Boss phase where there is no damage going on the raid - damage is needed to be put onto the boss during this time.

    You'll need healers to damage then, same with tanks.

    Phase where boss cannot take damage - healing and defence is needed during this time.

    You'll need DPS to heal or tank then.
  3. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    It completely depends on the boss fight. I'm sure there will be instances that you need some CC abilities or more escape abilities, or more healing abilities or maybe some damaging abilities. I don't think there's going to be any boss fights that will force ALL healers to pick up damaging abilities, but some of them will be able to pick them up if necessary. Remember there's interrupt armor, so CCPS will be a thing for certain bosses. Certain stats buff certain abilities differently. No one says that there won't be damaging skills that work perfectly well with your healing stats, or maybe CC's work better with your healing stats. What's your argument against being perfectly itemized for abilities and not using them?
  4. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    Wasting your already small LAS on damage spells and your mana pool on doing tiny amounts of damage...
  5. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Looking at the milestones in the CBT2 patch notes true hybridization is possible. Due to different stats giving different possibilities to milestones, it means that there will be greater variance of builds. For instance, a moxie (magic) heavy esper can kill off enemies with hard hitting damage abilities, and spawn healing orbs when adds die. This is a true hybridization, but it means that the hybridization comes from passive milestones as opposed to actively swapping out abilities. So, you can pay attention to your healing and "accidentally" do damage, not actively have to swap out.
  6. Sabre070

    Sabre070 Cupcake-About-Town

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    With a LAS you can easily have spells that have lower mana cost, but low damage or less scaling damage but more base.

    And it's not wasting your mana if you have to do it - even if it's a phase where there is 1 other target that you have to defeat to come back to your raid, you'll still need 1 damage spell.

    Or - if it is a phase that requires you to do a very small amount of damage to say 5 targets in a small area - you have the option of auto attacking each of them, or taking an aoe spell that may be a hybrid heal-damage so you can kill them all quickly.

    Hybrid spells wouldn't have as much scaling on each but they would have a better overall scaling.
  7. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/wildstar_wednesday_welcome_to_closed_beta_2.php
    Check out the milestones, this is a better basis for the argument you're trying to make. They mesh much better than trying to convince people to use their precious ability slots for hybridization.
  8. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    Passive hybridism that I don't actually have to perform is fine. I simply don't want to waste my time in a raid doing damage on a healer. I mean the entire point of playing a healer is to...heal.
  9. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    But one thing that may happen is less healers are needed, due to dps hybrids. There will still need to be dedicated healers for those that want to specialize, but there are also going to be viable options for true hybrids that aren't just gimped in both. They're not taking away your ability to heal, they realize there's a group of players that enjoys being healers, but then there's a group that doesn't mind swapping over roles or doing damage to heal as well. Basically there's options for all sorts of gameplay, and they've put together a functional true hybridization I think with the CBC and milestones. These solutions make for possibility of builds that are extremely interesting.
  10. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    I hate to be the guy that does this, but in trinity games as combat becomes more complex and difficult the trinity gets more and more strict. It's the way things work in these games. This is basically the law of the trinity.
  11. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    The trinity starts to break down when everyone can't just do one role though. There will have to be CC's and Pure DPS, and that will be where builds break molds. Sure people will generally min/max straight roles, but having hybrid roles which require a unique set of stats, means that you are still min/maxing, but getting multiple things from one role. As long as the maximum performance is gained from all possible stats, and giving weird stat balances to the player does not reduce the overall performance of the raid, it is actually helpful. (This is an assumption with a 40-man raid.) Your raid comp could have 2 dps and 1 healer, or 3 hybrids which pump out equivalent dps to the 2 dps and the 1 healer. The advantage is with the large gear variance it's easier to gear the 3 hybrids because they will need different optimization than the dps and healer only players. This means that they are viable, due to being able to more quickly upgrade your raid's performance.

    The LAS combined with interrupt armor means you may have dedicated raiders that need to throw out CC's, and lots of them quick for some boss fights. So, some healer/cc hybrids could be used in this case, or some dps/ccers or tank/cc. The more complex fights are more complex because they require raiders to do more than just their role. Take Garalon, it meant that at least 2 players (this is a minimum based on 10-man normal where the tanks are 2 of the kiters) from your raid had to learn to kite-tank effectively. It's the exact same fight as any tanking fight that you kite with, but requires players to do more than their usual role.
  12. rivalcycle971

    rivalcycle971 Cupcake

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    Only way I'll play a hybrid is if they allow a portion of damage to go towards healing.. i've always enjoyed classes like that (the monk, smite priest, etc). Switching between casted heals and damage is pretty clunky. Though I guess it'd be different in this game without the targeting.
  13. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Since you have freedom in your builds to use any ability you have, you could find some that feel smooth. Everyone thinks different builds feel... well... different, so the LAS with the milestone system I think will allow for a good variation of viable builds. This doesn't mean it's going to negate the way you used to like to play, just add other options for players who want them.
  14. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

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    Having played a shadow priest for over 6 years, that was always my secret dream - to be able to perform more then one role efficiently at the same time. When Rift first came out, I was in little heaven of my own over the chloromancer - all that my priest couldn't do, this class could. Sadly, I didn't like other aspects of Rift, so didn't play it for long. Tried again after they released the expansion, but they have completely destroyed the one, awesome class they created lol.

    So well, back on my list of game dreams - to be able to heal while still contributing substantially with the dmg output, or vice versa. And while I find it immensly fun, I do realize it may be very hard to balance, especially considering PVP aspect of the game - who wants to fight with a bad ass damage dealing/self and party healing machine?

    It could probably be done, playing around with class resources, forcing players to choose on the fly, what is more beneficial for that particular moment, a heal or a dmg ability; both types of abilities on shared cds maybe, or certain abilities of one type, locking abilities of other type for a period of time; or maybe an exactly opposite approach: using certain healing combos in a clever way unlocks awesome dmg ability, or the other way around - planning ahead, waiting for that right moment, to use or not to use..., stacking hots that increase your dmg output, sending a direct heal that if actually used to it's max capacity procs an awesome dmg magix.... a girl can dream ;)
  15. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    I see this going the other way around actually, one with decent sustained damage and adds to the overall party survivability. So it would look like this:

    Pure DPS : 100 DPS
    Pure Healer: 100 HPS
    DPS/Healer Hybrid: 80 DPS/ 20 HPS

    Something like that where they end up being a good addition to a team to take some of the pressure off of the healer. This in actuality on a 3 person arena team would be made of a DPS (or tank/dps hybrid), a Support (ccer/healer or tank/dps), and a healer.
  16. Dwel

    Dwel Cupcake

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    My two cents:

    Wildstar uses the trinity system, which implies the need for specialization.
    Wildsar also uses an LAS system, which implies the use of very specific specializations.

    There will be more than just cookie cutter full DPS / full TANK / full HEALER builds. Given how many specialization the LAS vs. total pool of abilities allows, the could have full HoT Healer, AoE healer, target damage healer. All these are valid possibilities.

    Personally, I'm eager to see how it plays out. We may not have seen a LAS game so far that does raiding right (in my humble opinion), but maybe Wildstar will suprise it.
  17. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    So, with the CBC system I think players will have to figure out the best build for the gear they receive. Milestones will create mini-plateaus for performance improvements. Experimentation will happen to try to best optimize builds based on those stats. I think the limiting factor for specializations will be based on the creativity of the players, along with the gear the player gets.
  18. Dwel

    Dwel Cupcake

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    I don't believe gear will be that limiting. Each class will rely on specific stats as a whole, but the skills seem to scale based on 'primary' stats (as seen in the patch notes). While specific gear will make specific builds more powerful, player creativity and content needs (specific boss, PvP battles, etc.) may to be the deciding factors; at least this is the way I see it right now.
  19. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    This isn't true... Check the milestones here: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/wildstar_wednesday_welcome_to_closed_beta_2.php

    All classes will get different benefits from EVERY stat, not just a couple primary stats. There's support and assault which basically determine role, but you gain different passives based on the other 6 stats. So, different players will have drastically different builds, based on the upgrades they get. Of course they still have control as to whether they have a chance to receive the upgrade or not, they don't have exact control on every upgrade.

    Read over this thread:
    http://wildstar-central.com/index.p...crafting-random-chips-discussion.3120/page-15

    Check the thread and the milestones from the patch notes, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
  20. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    Yeah, you really have no clue how complex raiding works in a trinity game with specializations do you?

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