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Warrior vs. Rogue aka Tank Fight

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Skean, May 4, 2013.

  1. Vog

    Vog New Cupcake

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    I definitely share your concern. A dodge is better than mitigation in terms of damage received, if you can time your dodge then you can dodge the most deadly boss abilities. The only way I see to balance it is to water it down, say a dodge tank mitigates 90% of the hits and dodges the remaining 10%, whereas the mitigation tank mitigates 80% of the time and has a 'super mitigation' 20% of the time.
  2. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think with the more evasion based combat of wildstar, stalker tanks have the potential to really shine. If bosses rely more on telegraphs rather than autohits, it will give stalkers possibly the advantage of being more mobile than a warrior, thus avoiding those hits a warrior would simply soak up, using his dodges only when the big hitters happen.

    I'm highly tempted to play one of these in the future, a tanking role in W* sounds strangely appealing to me, being the mobile stalker who dashes in, gets their attention for my friends, whilst they can take them apart in the mean time.
  3. Arkay

    Arkay Cupcake

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    Rogue tanking should be much harder than the standard but be possible. It's hard to balance. The typical balance is usually one tank has more stability and survivability whereas the other does more damage. This is good on paper but never works out well in the long run.

    I'm personally a leather tanker generally. I think the best way to maybe do it is have the heavy armor/shield user taking steady minimized damage with the leather wearing taking none unless they screw up some active skill of theirs(this should require a lot of skill so that most people are hesitant in accepting a non shield tank) and get trucked for huge damage. They should also do more damage than a shield user but have less group protective skills (No cover or group defensive enhances/heals).
  4. cirk

    cirk Cupcake

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    I can understand why game designer try to separate the tanking role from the traditional guy in heavy armor with shield and make the role more popular. Nevertheless I find a player tanking a boss in leather or robes (SWtoR) looks just beyond ridiculous.
  5. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    My guess is that active mitigation will play a big role in the warrior's tankplay while the stalker will have to...Uh...Idk, also mitigate actively?

    It really depends. Maybe if you play both on a tanking role in mind you will just have different skills and both will be on par?

    I don't think so, but we'll see who's better. I hope both have pro's and cons :I
  6. Sneakybuffalo

    Sneakybuffalo Cupcake-About-Town

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    Based on the Milestones in the last patch, I'm guessing Warriors have a freater focus on armor, while Stalkers have more shields and shield regen

    Very interested to see how the last tank will work
  7. Virtual On

    Virtual On Cupcake

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    Evasion-based tanks will always been frowned upon if they need to move the boss to evade.

    It's a simple fact.

    Moving boss = making every one else in the raid adjust to what you're doing. It adds another layer to player participation that will NOT be there if the Warrior can tank the content adequately.
  8. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    Though this is assuming a WoW style fight, where the tank has more control over boss positioning - and is required to do so.
    But let's assume Wildstar will mix things up. So if a telegraph shows up, even the tank will have to run, and as such, move the boss. You can't assume that it will be possible to taunt and turn the boss, so that you can spam DPS at its backside. I would assume fights will be.. not chaotic, but definitely more dynamic as far as movement is concerned, so skill with moving about will matter more than stand-still DPS output.

    As far as evasion damage reduction in numbers goes, I know there is the issue of being squished by the random stray big hit that gets past the RNG, and a meat shield has benefits there. But again, I think big hitters will be telegraphs, so that the smaller, more regular damage input will be a lot more normalized and equal between meat shield versus evasion styles.
  9. Ennui

    Ennui Cupcake

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    i know i'm gonna make a bunny stalker tank. because its different. she's also going to be a bleed tank, my 3rd highest stat is gonna be brutality to get the bleed damage going.
  10. Virtual On

    Virtual On Cupcake

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    Not necessarily, some telegraphs may be for people who simply can't live through it. Also, boss moving is mandatory in some mechanics. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about frivolous moving just to try and mitigate things like a normal tank.

    There are taunts, and taunts are a mandatory implementation, anyways, to be able to implement a wider variety of mechanics.




    Evasion tanking will never, ever, be as viable as normal tanking as long as you have to move the boss more than usual, and you don't offer anything above that. The only way to offset that balance would be offer some kind of over-powered debuff, and in which case why not just spec DPS but use that debuff, and have a "real" tank tank?
  11. Doki

    Doki New Cupcake

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    I dont agree. The P___ N___ that are on the Wildstar offical website, Include an ability that really makes me have hope for Stalker tanks, It hints that Stalkers will be abble to Mitigate damage From hit's In some situations, allowing you to soak hit's

    Also If I can refrence a diffrent action based combat with Evasion tanks A good Warrior tank In tera can control a boss with out moving it "key word GOOD" and it does this though using skills that allow you to reduce damage you take from an attack to mitigate small hit's and only roll out of attacks like say... "Telegraphs"

    TL;DR I have Hopes that Stalker tanks will be able to Mitigate small hits and evade big ones. as GOOD warriors can in tera.


    I had a simular Idea x3... Planned Aurin Stalker Tank here =3
  12. Virtual On

    Virtual On Cupcake

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    In TERA it was still better to have a Lancer tank, warrior DPS, Cleric DPS, and then most likely Slayer/Sorc.
  13. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    There's no signs so far that there will be any drastic differences in how the tank classes tank. At least regarding their defenses. So far, it looks like they'll be relying on a mix of damage reduction and evasion. With so much emphasis being placed on mechanics in fights, I don't think -any- tank is going to be able to just stand there like a moron and eat up avoidable damage.

    Anyways, the official patch notes show damage reduction abilities for Stalkers. Which happen to be more or less identical, numerically, to the ones Warriors get. Which is a smart approach, imho. Obviously, every class should have some degree of uniqueness, but certain things like mitigation -should- be "boring" in the sense that it's designed to be simple and reliable. Function trumps form on this one.

    All that aside, both classes look really cool. I won't be able to decide which one I play until I've gotten some quality time with the game to see how they each feel.
  14. Doki

    Doki New Cupcake

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    you didn't Play tera much did you? The Hardcore MCHM groups I knew used Warrior Tank's Zerk/Sorc/and Slayer for DPS and a Mystic healer... Also.. Cleric dps? you Mean Priest with their ONE DPS spell per 20 seconds?

    I agree Entirely, Warriors Seem to get a Regeneration every 10th hit. Which could be Game changing, or nothing worth mentioning.
    where as stalker's get debuffs and small mitigation and dodges.
    and the third part I dont Know... The Only weapons Ive seen for each class... are 2handed sword. and a pair of claws. If I had a choice of one massive weapon and two fast weapons ? I like my odds with two fast weapons...
    Then again... I was one of the "Over powered" Rift Stalker's In Rift that could tank for half the fight while the healer is dead.... Evasion tanks. Can. and DO work. if you have the brains. and or skill to go with them.

    DSIS. "Dont stand in stupid"
  15. Virtual On

    Virtual On Cupcake

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    My friends and I quit about 6 months in because we all <REDACTED>ed up and didn't level any crafts, and sold all of our mats while leveling.

    At that point, where HM BT was the top, and very very few people had beaten it, you used a lancer tank with various other classes. Except no Archer or Zerker. Priest DPS with healing as appropriate.

    It's obvious I meant Priest, and they have more than one spell every 20s, along with an extra Endurance debuff.
  16. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    He's describing an old-fashioned party, I think. He's probably meaning a mystic when he says cleric, he's referring to a pre-nerf slayer (berserker would be in its place now, and the mystic would be healing these days)and good warriors are also more popular these days with the increasing prevalance of bosses that will just shred anyone who doesn't dodge properly, which negates a lot of the benefit of a lancer tank.

    I -think- he's talking about bringing the warrior for that debuff of theirs, I forget the name, and the mystic for its crit buff... if you took a TERA time machine and travelled backward through the patches, you'd hit a point where what he described was pretty standard. The fact that he didn't mention a berserker (and the fact that he spoke of the game in past tense)leads me to believe he hasn't played it in a while. Zerks are pretty notorious for their crazy burst damage these days.

    God, I'm bored.

    Edit: ... okay, he really was talking about a DPS priest. I was right otherwise, though.
  17. Virtual On

    Virtual On Cupcake

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    Working and being the best/easiest are 2 different things.


    You could not tank a raid boss for half the fight with no healer. You couldn't tank any raid boss with an evasion setup unless you massively over-geared the fight.

    Riftstalkers were mitigation tanks, not evasion tanks. Evasion-tanking was a gimmicky build useful for very few situations. That's why they added in Deflect, a functional equivalent of Block, because they couldn't compete with warriors. At the time, that STILL didn't make them competitive with warriors.

    edit: Not to mention Riftstalkers are not evade tanks in the literal sense, like Tera/supposedly W*.
  18. Doki

    Doki New Cupcake

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    Oh this was an argument of which was best/ easiest...? but wheres the fun? I personally Love jumping in and out of a fight humming "cant touch this" while I'm playing a warrior tank In tera....

    In all speculation... since thats all we can do, or say.
    Warriors seemingly Mitigate Through Grit healing them selves when they are hit in fancy ways and such.
    and Stalkers will Mitigate through debuffs, sheilds, and techy things....
    I know what sounds more FUN. why do you play games good sir. do you play to be the best. or have fun.
    I play to have fun, there for Stalkers sound the best. I'm going to go to bed now v.v
  19. Virtual On

    Virtual On Cupcake

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    I'm perfectly fine with that.

    We just misunderstood eachother, is all.
  20. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    I've always liked the idea of agility-tanking. I hope it works out.

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