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What about dungeon finder?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by JarNod, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Q: You mentioned that dungeons can appear, how will this happen? Will these be predictable events?
    A: We do several kinds. A common example is that a spaceship lands next to you and brings you somewhere else. Our engine lets us modify the terrain at runtime. That means we can have a dungeon entrance rubble up, have micro dungeons or even caves appear.
    In early development we had these things appear random. For example a spaceship crashes, guards start to come out and secure the area and a little dungeon inside the ship popped up. But players did not realize that this was happening dynamic, since the event had already happened when they were not in the area and players thought it was just normal static content. So we changed these events to be player started. The player interacts, and sees the cool thing happen and realizes that he caused this change and have him observe its impact on the game world.

    This is a just a snibbit of a interview with Jeremy Gaffney off of a fansite.

    You've probably already read it, but if not there is a link to the entire article in Wildstar News.
    Very good article.... Highly recommend.
  2. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    I think you are misplacing at what moment in WoW's history it happened. The keys you speak of were added in vanilla and ramped up even more in the first expansion The Burning Crusade. During this expansion they lowered the requirements (reputation needed) and with the second expansion Wrath of the Lich King they were gone completely. A damn shame if you ask me.

    Attuning and keying is something I really liked. It prevented access to dungeons and raids for the people that didn't at least a big chunk of the quests related to the dungeon or raid. The problem with the implementation in WoW was that some of those only could be done in a group. It would have been better if you could complete those on your own. This way it won't force 4 or more people to help you to get that key or attunement.

    You can use keys and/or attunements for example to unlock dungeons in the DF.
  3. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    You see this as it being a problem, I tell you that when you take out that implementation you would have to add more quests or grind up the reputation to get the key. Would say that it encourages people to run dungeons? If so then how is that a problem?
  4. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Agreed... It was mostly a BC thing. I was just using it as an example to show some of the different things they used before a DF tool was used to gear check folks.

    I totally agree.
  5. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think what Black Wolf and I are trying to say (other than remembering some good times in WoW)
    is that giving people a sense of accomplishment for completing things as small as a regular instance makes them more likely to take pride in it. It keeps peeps from thinking "well I cleared that content.... what's next?"

    It's not about keeping people from content..... It's about making content feel important and rewarding when completed.
  6. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    How would you go about giving them sense?
  7. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

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    By giving them a challenge. A long hard (especially at the end) attunement for a raid, something a bit easier for the smaller dungeons. The dungeon ones should probably be part of the zones standard quest story line, so that most of them will be naturally done simply by completing that zone.
  8. Sprby

    Sprby Cupcake

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    I am not in the position to think about it, I am not in atonement with that sense of accomplishment. There has to be more of a PVP aspect for me.
  9. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

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    PvP has nothing to do with dungeons and raiding.
  10. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    Maybe not normally or in past MMOs, but it certainly could. If you had open area dungeons you would have to fight off not only the mobs but also the other competitors.
  11. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Haven't a couple of games tried that before? I know if I got ganked halfway through a bossfight I would just be done with the entire encounter.

    Trying to swing it around though, What do you guys think about DF tools having built in gear checks?
    For me personally I hated gear score. It's not that it is a bad thing it just can't take into account player skill.

    Here is a example.... You have a guy that has been playing a game for years, he is on his umpteenth alt he's good and does everything right but his gear is sub-par. then you have guy number 2... his guildies have run him through everything and he has gear galore but has no clue what he is doing. Personally I rather run with the first guy.
  12. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    I don't know if anyone has done it before. I don't think I would enjoy the ganking either and people will be people so we know it would happen.

    As far as built in gear checks, I really wish they would do away with gear specs and move toward spells and potions for the benefits. I can see having armor that helps reduce the amount of hit points taken from the swings of your opponent, but I wish HP, AGI, etc., would not be increased by gear. My health should be my health no matter what I am wearing. If they went this way, gear would not matter as much and just be for looks. The rest could be adjusted by spells and potions before or during the conflict.
  13. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Spells working like buffs for your class I.E. tanking and whatnot? Like if you go up a tanking tree you would gain spells that boosted your survivability. I can see that. Potions maybe not as much... It sounds like that might make potion-making a required endgame crafting skill. (everyone would have to have their pots up before starting a raid or encounter)
  14. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    You are contradicting yourself there Dyraele. You don't want to see gear stats, but you don't mind armor. Which is a gear stat. I see what you are trying to do there though. There are games out there that are skill based and not gear based. Like The Secret World. I never played that game, so I don't know how it works exactly, so maybe someone else can explain.

    Both both systems are flawed though. Something like armor is totally gear based, it is something your wear. You can't learn to make armor better, it's on or off. Weight of armor falls into the same category.
    Something like rate of fire is a skill. You can learn to draw and fire faster by doing it more.

    But is really hard to combine both systems. That is why developers pick one or the other.
  15. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    Well, I don't really see it as a contradiction. If you wore real armor, your health doesn't automatically increase yet in a game your hit points increase. I would rather see HP increases come from spell buffs or something like that so that armor is more cosmetic then mandatory. Yes, it will have some benefits such as helping you stay alive a little longer since your bare skin isn't showing, but no HP, AGI, STR, INT, etc., increases with armor.
  16. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    I think I see what you are saying Black Wolf, but I thought the purpose of gear score was to rate your gear for raid purposes. If you take away that purpose then gear score isn't really needed since your gear is mostly cosmetic and the other buffs come by other means.
  17. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Gear score is not the same as gear stats. Gear score or iLvl is a rating on how good your gear is. The gear score is calculated from the gear stats on the item.

    In fact, it works the other way around. The score determines how much stats can be on the item. And every stat has a weight. For example stamina has a stat weight of 1. While Agility has a weight of 1.5. So an item with 100 stamina and 70 Agility would have a score of (100*1) + (70*1.5) = 100 + 105 = 205. So an item with 55 stamina and 100 Agility would have the same gear score.

    Now combine all the items you have and calculate the average score. This average determines if your gear is good enough for entering a dungeon or raid.
  18. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    Yes, that is basically what I meant. I would like it if they got away from gear having "scores" or "stats" and let that be taken care of by buffs of some kind, like spells. I would like gear to have more of a cosmetic value. That way your skill and buffs come more into play and the gear you have can be a cosmetic "look at me and what I have done" value.
  19. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    The fastest way to make a grouping feature for specific content go unused is to not include a minimum requirement for queuing or for not locking sub-requirement toons out of the parts, that they are ill fit to do, despite skills.

    Wether it is gearing, getting keyed, or whatever used for gating is up to further discussion, but I can guarantee that a majority of players will not find a dungeon finder or LFR feature usable at all, if someone can queue up and enter a group with total disregard to what minimum requirements for the content is.

    One shot by the first time there is an unavoidable encounter aoe dmg mechanics due to bad gearing only show a extreme skill in overestimating the importance of skills in really bad gear. Gear can be so bad that skills does not make up for it, and there are people willing to queue with it.

    This is why WoW Dungeon Finder works as in being a success by how much it is used, because even with the glaring error it has right now it works (1. ilvl does not give primary class stat extra value, 2. pvp stats are included on ilvl).

    This is also why games, that makes their dungeon finder a free for all does not have the same use of their dungeon finder, because spamming lfm in chat is then more efficient for finding a group (and harsher because players tend to require more than a Dungeon Finder with gating, instead of just gear barely good enough for the content, they want to see the achievement for having killed it).
  20. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    Yes, I can agree with that. However, I also think this is only true because of the stereotypical path most games use. There is so much dependence on gear that other paths are not explored. I would like to see someone at some point in time really go out of the box and allow for more viable crafting that supports player boosts instead of gear boosts. Then, the only requirement for DF would be more level and skills you have trained and let others or yourself boosts the stats you need.

    Maybe this wouldn't be viable, maybe it would. Maybe someone will take a chance someday and go down a different path.

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