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What are your "almost" deal breakers?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Nexus Elites, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. Nexus Elites

    Nexus Elites Cupcake

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    Ok, so I'm guessing most of us here are huge Wildstar fans, and can't wait for the game to go live. Having said that, is there anything about the game that is almost a deal breaker for you, that might make you not want to invest in the game? As you may have read in other threads around here, I'm still not 100% sold on the combat, and I know the combat is one of the biggest aspects of the game. It doesn't feel right to me yet, but I'm not giving up on it. My main pet peeves are how every mob has a telegraph AND can auto attack while we only have telegraphs. I know it will probably just take some getting used to but I honestly wish that the combat was more "lock on a target and cast spells" than cast spells on the ground and hit things with it. To me, I'm a firm believer that "if it's not broken, don't fix it" and the classic MMO combat style of target lock and spell spam still works for me. As of late, more and more MMO's are trying to come out with some kind of game-changing combat system, and to me, its unnecessary.

    I love everything about Wildstar, but the combat is still a real holdup for me and my wifey. She likes playing a healer, and more specifically, likes to heal up missing health bars on a healing addon. She's still not liking having to aim some of her heals on the ground.

    (in case you're wondering, I've already pre-ordered for the wife and I, and we plan on playing it obsessively lol)
  2. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    Auto group finder. Every time I try to get excited about the game I remember it and realize this game is never gonna have the server communities that make MMOs special.
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  3. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    There are several things that I don't like about it. They're all small things. Things like that characters are one word names only and very limited character creator (I like height sliders!). I still kind of wish the esper's first builder was mobile and, for that matter, think several of the esper abilities I don't really like. Sometimes the crafting seems a little overly complicated to me. I worry about the kind of community will form on the servers.

    Then I see a rowsdower plushie. rowsdowerplushie.jpg

    It's so cute!
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  4. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm anxious to see how the new body types look from the new patch notes, but more sliders would be a plus.

    At the OP about the combat, I'm actually quite the opposite. I have been so bored with the target and shoot MMO combat for awhile and the telegraph system feels like a great balance between classic MMO and FPS. I think they have done a good job with taking the classic things that work while adding new elements to make it unique.

    Crafting does seem a litte over complicated, but I was never big into crafting anyway.

    Overall, for me, I can't think of anything that would be a major deal breaker besides lack of dev attention. As long as they continue to put out new, solid content to keep the game interesting instead of just shoving shiny cosmetics and lockboxes down our throats, I will be a happy camper.
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  5. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    Questing. I don't like questing to begin with, and have discussed repeatedly why I think the questing (along with paths) is a weakness in the game. But, the dungeons, adventures, shiphands, and BGs are all great so I can avoid a large amount of the questing.
  6. Fishsticks

    Fishsticks Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm not as impressed with the combat as I thought I would be (don't get me wrong, it's fun!) but I was personally looking for a little more like TERA or Neverwinter combat. To me, wildstar combat still feels sort of floaty and disconnected - like a better version of GW2 combat


    I wish they would let us customize our character bodies - So happy they added some options!


    (unrelated: what happened to "strike-through" for font styles?
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  7. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm not trying to be a fan-boy, but honestly, Wildstar strikes every major expectations that I have, which is why I was following it for so long. My major major major criteria for an mmo are: 1. Engaging Combat 2. Difficult Endgame 3. Smooth Animation. Any game that aims for these 3 things will be on the top of my list. I've played so many mmos in the past decade, and Wildstar is the first one that promises all these aspects combined. GW2 and Tera had engaging combat, but no endgame. WoW had endgame, but combat was a bit boring (which is why I mained heals). Hence at that point, nothing is a "deal-breaker", it's already jackpot for me, now the question is the exact amount of cash.

    I did have things that I hoped to see, for example some way of showcasing our character model even if it's just for ourselves. I turn the camera around while facing a wall every 10 minutes in ANY game to check on my character's face, I move the camera around when I'm running to check my character's movement, but I would just like a slightly more legitimate reason for us to see ourselves close up. This is something that really strikes me in GW2, with the character model blowing up in personal story cut scenes. It doesn't need to be that way, but I'm hoping that there are some in-game mechanism to showcase our character model in Wildstar. It's by no means a deal-breaker though, it's just wishing on my part.

    Give it some time, and let your guard down, soon you'll be able to better enjoy it. New mechanisms are not always comfortable, new keybindings, new combat style, are all things to get used to, especially if you're already very accustomed to your previous setup/environment. But we can adapt, this is one thing that we're really good at. The world never stops changing, what is "stationary" is just rapid changes back and forth that is equillibrium --- I totally get your point that "if it's not broken don't fix it", but there's another way to look at it: We're not fixing anything, things just change. I know I sound like a know-it-all giving out life lessons and all, but that's because I really hope you and your wife can enjoy this part of the game since it is a core aspect, and there aren't really any advice or suggestions that I can give other than "take it slow but let it sink in"...

    Regarding the telegraphed action combat itself though, it is one of my favourite aspect of the game! I've said in other posts why I like it so much, basically I demand quite a lot of engagement in combat because I myself tend to be over-focused in a task and if that 100% focus doesn't pay off compared to a 70% focus scenario, I'm a bit discouraged. Not to be absolute, but through my experience, action combat generally pays off my focus a lot more than target combat. I understand that this itself may not bode well with many people, not everyone want to be on the edge focusing 100% in a video game, it can be exhausting, it can be a lot of pressure. So I definitely don't blame anyone for preferring target combat, I'm just saying, I like action combat and here are my reasons. Now within action combat, there's the movement > animation style like Wildstar and GW2, and then there's animation > movement style like Tera and Dragon Nest, I prefer the former. The former breaks up decision blocks into infinite chunks of time, you'd be really on your toe (provided the content is hard enough), whereas the latter sometimes feel like move - cast - move - cast where the cast = rooted animation. Finally, the telegraph system, it's genius. It gets rid of the awkward FPS style cross in the middle of the screen that many action combat games have, very very smart. I mean, like I said myself, you can get used to anything even the FPS cross in an mmo, but using a telegraph to fix this potential annoyance is a brilliant innovation.
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  8. Nexus Elites

    Nexus Elites Cupcake

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    Maybe that's the problem. I'm not an FPS player, and the FPS-style of combat is being forced into the game. I know lots of people like the combat system, but maybe the people that like it are also FPS players? I can see why people might say the old style of target and shoot is boring and outdated, but I think it still works, as long as the actual spells are interesting. I've recently tried the sticky target option, and it's been a lot better for me, though sometimes when fighting multiple mobs you don't hit them all with your telegraphs. Might try that Deadlock addon, I've heard its amazing for swapping back and forth from sticky targeting to non-sticky targeting.
  9. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    Just don't forget that target locking doesn't work in pvp.

    Personally, the managing of targets and trying to tab through or click on the targets I wanted to hit in pvp when I played WoW was frustrating for me. So being able to just aim at who I want to hit makes this game feel like it was made for me. That, along with the LAS (I hate button bloat) and the fun, humorous atmosphere of the game is what drew me and will make me stick around.

    But hey, that's me and won't be everyone's feelings. I minimally play FPS and spent some time in Neverwinter so the combat here was an easy thing to pick up. Anybody not used that faster paced style of aiming will definitely have a harder time.

    Oh, and @Felion's last bit there, I agree 100% about the telegraphs in this game vs. a crosshair style. Love it.
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  10. calebrus

    calebrus Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm in the pro-telegraph crowd as well.
    I despise slow combat games (like WoW and most other "traditional" MMOs have been until recently). It's way too boring for me. I've played TONS of them, but usually not for more than a few dozen hours (WoW included). I'm not opposed to tab targeting in and of itself, but I almost always hate games that use it because the combat is boring. Especially because most of those games do not allow movement during attacks.
    For this reason, the only pseudo-traditional MMO that I actually enjoyed playing for any length of time was DDO. It used tab targeting, but didn't require it (mouselook was an option, used in conjunction with tabbing) but also allowed attacking on the move. Until a couple of years ago, DDO was the only MMO that had ever been worth playing in my opinion.
    An example of amazing potential in my eyes which utterly failed would be Neverwinter. It would have been exponentially more fun if you weren't locked in place while attacking.
  11. Bloodclott

    Bloodclott Cupcake

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    I am gonna ask a question is I see this labeled as a problem all over the place but never understood why....

    Questing is a weakpoint? How would they change it? Every MMO accept perhaps the FPS hybrids and the Superhero MMOs have quests in the same exact way Wildstar does. The only MMO I know out there that differentiates itself is Secret World (GW2 is NOT a good example questing wise, the quests hid a lot of the grindiness under multiple options....)

    Just asking this out of curiosity. I have no clue how would they change questing.....
  12. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    One of mine are the challenges.

    I was initially excited about the idea. I remember hearing a dev say something to the effect of "hey I notice you are killing a bunch of these guys, lets see if you can kill them really fast" (paraphrasing). What it ends up being is a diversion from what I am currently doing. It completely breaks the flow of the game for me. And it is anything but situational, it's automatic. It isn't detecting that I am killing a lot of things in the area, it is just handing me a challenge the second I do anything related to it.

    It works great in the exile spider cave where you may be waiting for people to show up for the group mob ... things like that ... but its anything but spontaneous. It's automatic. You kill one of the mobs and you start the challenge.

    I like the concept, but to me, the implementation really just gets in the way. Feels like something I would enjoy at endgame, but while leveling it just seems to break up the flow.

    Maybe it's just overdone at low levels. If it was more rare, I could see it being more of a relief to the constant stream of quests from 0-50.
  13. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree here, I think it just needs to be reworked a little while leveling, maybe an option to have it proc less. I find that when I'm questing I ended up just immediately cancel any challenge whenever "challenge begins!" is played to me. Because keep hearing "challenge failed!" is not very pleasant... :(
  14. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    Except it's not being forced into the game...it is the combat of W*...and it's not exactly a secret.
    The W* Devs have gone out of their way with all of the Dev Speaks and Class Streams to let you know how it plays, so going into W* without knowing this is on you.
    Except you do know this...which means that you are the one trying to force a non-W* combat system onto W*, and your doing this because you don't like the W* combat. Your trying to use the reasoning that because it's an MMORPG it should have typical MMORPG combat mechanics, which is not true; there are no laws that dictate that MMORPG combat has to be a certain way.

    This thread is just another veiled attempt to dictate how W* should play out.
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  15. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    There's no "almost" deal breakers for me - followed the game for over a year now and been in beta for almost a year, and know what I'm getting into already.

    Also, OP, I'm very much unlike your wifey - I'm looking FORWARD to not having to play whack-a-mole with little green health bars while standing still. It will actually take paying attention to your surroundings and where the people in your group are to heal well instead of standing in one spot and mashing a macro button.
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  16. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    I am not looking for changes to standard MMORPG questing, as it is just organized grinding to me, but I have several issues with Wildstar’s implementation. The first being the negligible gain in killing and doing quests above your level compared with the sharp drop when doing quests below your level. This limits you into a very small ideal band, which limits your ability to stay and finish everything in a zone you particularly like, or skip a zone you don’t like. It also lowers the efficiency of finishing up quest lines if you have decided to do adventures/dungeons/PVP in the middle of them.

    The next is how anti-group the quests are. Obviously, I have not tried grouping with the updates they made to introduce harder mobs into the zone for more quest credit, but the amount of gather/interact and other quests that don’t share credit with the group eliminate any advantage you have from killing more efficiently in a group, especially when there is low mob density and slower respawn. Combine this with challenges and it becomes superior to just quest solo, and occasionally group up for the group quests.

    The third and probably biggest problem is the amount of overlap there is in the standard quests and the path quests. Your standard quests are already heavy on the kill/gather/fed-ex quests, so adding more kill/gather/fed ex quests to the paths makes the game feel grindier. Cutting out a lot of the bloat from the path quests would do a lot to make the overall questing feel less grindy.
  17. calebrus

    calebrus Cupcake-About-Town

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    That shouldn't be an issue any longer.
  18. Nexus Elites

    Nexus Elites Cupcake

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    Sorry, this was a hard read for me (you're* x2), but I guess you think I'm trying to say that the combat should be a certain way in all MMOs and that's not at all what I was saying. Of course I knew what the combat was like before I played it, but you really don't know what it is like until you actually try it. Also, I stated that I probably just needed to get used to it. A lot of MMOs are going out of their way to change the genre of what an MMO should be, and in most cases, it doesn't work out (see: Guild Wars 2). Would you still play WildStar if it had WoW-style combat? I would, because I like Wildstar for other reasons than just the combat.
  19. Nexus Elites

    Nexus Elites Cupcake

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    That's fine, but I know a lot of people *do* like playing whack-a-mole with little green health bars. While I can understand that WoW-type healing is stereotyped as such, the difference between a good healer and a bad healer in WoW was knowledge of the fights, when damage was coming in, and when to use your major cooldowns. While there were times you could stand still and spam heals, it didn't mean that healing was easy.

    From your perspective, can't it also get frustrating to heal people that are all spread out with telegraphs? It seems your healing success highly revolves around the competency of your group, not necessarily your own skill level. In WoW, I knew a lot of people that took pride in being able to carry a group in the heals department, from their own performance. I just foresee a lot of "omg guys, you're all spread out and I can't heal you" complaints coming in, but I haven't healed in Wildstar yet, so maybe I'm wrong.

    Also, let me reiterate that I've fully "retired" from WoW, and do look forward to playing Wildstar on May 31st. Just still hung up on the combat part :p
  20. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    The second is addressed, so I'll just comment on the first and third problems that you've raised.

    I agree that doing quests below level giving too little xp is a slight discouragement, for the whole purpose of finishing up an area or a story line. Killing and doing quests above your level I don't have so much a problem with, imo you just need to expand one of the sides to make it broader, not necessarily both, and between the two it just so happens for me that more often I find myself out leveling the contents compared to the other way around. Keep in mind though that they do want to regulate the leveling speed, so if higher level quest become too efficient, essentially it means the upper bound of leveling speed through questing is raised.

    The third aspects I don't have as much problems with, it really depends on whether if you're just leveling them up for the sake of leveling them up or whether if you're doing your path for the sake of enjoying your path. It's actually no big deal if you're on a leveling spree and decides to ignore your path quests all together, won't gib you in anyway, you can always come back and do your path quests with a relaxed mentality once you're max level.

    For example, yeah Scientist has a lot of scan 3 of this and scan 10 of that quests. But I quite enjoyed reading all the different logs after every scan, so each scan gives me something new so to speak. Explorer is a lot of exploring which I don't think belongs to the grinding category in the first place. Settlers has a lot of gathering material for sure, and I suppose gathering by itself isn't really fun unlike Scientist scan, it's just a mean to the end that is building stuff. So I guess they could do something with Settler quests. But one can argue that the grindy gathering is itself one of the major component of the path, in other words if you don't want to gather you can always choose the other paths. Soldier, well, the grinding (killing) is somewhat already in the description of the path so...

    I of course welcome changes that make things more fun or more smooth, but I'm just saying that I personally don't have a problem with it now, as in I'm still having a lot of fun doing them even though at times it feels a little overwhelming. When it gets overwhelming, my solution is either calm myself down into a different mentality, OR ignore the path quests if I really want to be on a leveling spree. It worked for me, revisiting old sites and doing my path quests after I got to level 20 felt so much better and more enjoyable. And the thing is, if path quests are diluted too much, I worry that we wouldn't have this option --- there will simply be too few path quests to go through, and there will just be a lot of running from distant point to distant point.

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