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What are your "almost" deal breakers?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Nexus Elites, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    See - if someone died in WoW, everyone blamed the Healers "you didn't heal me, i'm more important than so-and-so!" and not themselves "oh, i didn't move out of that, oops, my fault!" For WildStar you CAN blame the DPS for not moving - in fact, it's often going to BE the case - "Hey, wasn't the healers fault, he didn't move out of the big red circle and into the nice green one!"
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  2. Enedhril

    Enedhril New Cupcake

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    My almost deal breakers are the LFG teleportation system and the possible implementation of any kind of flying. I always wondering why put tools into a Massively MULTIPLAYER Online game which alows you to avoid player vs player interractions. Completely kills of server communities and immersion. The game has already a nail in the coffin for me whit the LFG system, the momment the flying enters the game, the same momment my subscription leaves Carbin.
  3. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    It makes me chuckle a little (in a friendly way). W* = Wildstar, where the * = Star. :D

    When you say it doesn't work out though, I disagree that GW2 is in that category. For all intends and purposes, it certainly paid the bill for the developers and I personally think that it has had quite a big impact on mmos in terms of innovations. Most notably, the questing completion bar instead of number, small change, but it influenced Wildstar and beyond. Emphasis on complete gear/level equality, it has backfired but ultimately still left a big impact in the player base and consequently development of future games. Action combat that does NOT resemble a FPS game (unlike Dragon Nest and Tera) also started from GW2, it was the first of its kind and it pushed the action combat beyond its typical audience. I think it's safe to say that we're now witnessing a general trend for mmos to go from targeted combat to action combat, this trend has been brought up years ago by Dragon Nest and other games, evolved into Tera, but really sank in in the western hemisphere through GW2. It takes quite a few big games to revert people's general preference but it's now here, so it's not like a "sudden trendy thing", it's a long process that is finally coming to fruiting time as technology advances and gamers become more familiar.

    I mained healer too in WoW for many years, of course no one is saying that healing is "easy". And I do, indeed, pride myself for being able to carry a group through my heals, 1 healing 10 man groups etc. The thing is, you'd still have to do everything a healer does in Wildstar, except now you have to be aware of everyone's position and movement. Does it make it more challenging? Of course, but this is why it becomes more fun as well!

    As early as advendures at 15 and dungeon at level 20, you can already tell that the healer can make or break the group. Healers are not as powerless as you fear, ultimately you're the one casting spells, you have 10 (or more) different ways of healing someone. As long as your dps don't go suicide mode (and no healer in ANY game can succeed when your dps goes suicidal), and you plan out your spells and predict locations ahead of time, you're still in control of the situation. If everyone's scattered and you need to get emergency group heals in, every healing class have some CDs or strategies to deal with it, you just can't panic and you need to be ready for what's coming.

    It's actually not THAT different from say, raid healing in WoW. Let's take priest for example, in some fights you need to life grip friendly targets to your side, that takes positional awareness. When you cast Prayer of Healing, you gotta cast it on the right target, remember that it has a limited radius AND limiting to the group of your target, so you need to know where those groups are and who's closer to the centre of that scattered group of people. Circle of Healing again, you need to know where people are because the radius is quite small. Even prayer of mending, it bounces to the closest target, you wouldn't want to cast it on a lone dps standing nowhere close to others hence have no one to share bounces with. I take it that you've played GW2, so you must be familiar with elementalist water field immediately followed by arcane blast, or eruption followed by a water field on top of it, or water attunement healing nearby target, or (back when Evasive Arcana works) dodge into water field triple healing. All of these needs you to be aware of who you want to heal and where he is standing. Tera, it's an action combat game with trinity, so obviously healing there can also be a clue, but I don't know if you have played it before so I won't comment too much on it.

    All I'm trying to say is, don't worry, if you or your wife enjoy healing in other games, you'll enjoy healing in Wildstar. Healers aren't helpless and at the mercy of the group, they're still the powerful backstage overseers as in any other games. Yes there will be times that you need to tell your group to stick together for a certain phase for you to heal them through big damage, but remember WoW raids also tell people to group up for mad heals in heavy damage phases. Yes there are also times when it just gets overwhelming and the dps panics and runs like headless chicken, but hey that's the challenge of it. If you REALLY can't get used to it, some research on the healing style of different classes may help you decide. For example if you prefer less mobile healing you can go with Esper, and make good use of Esper's heals that are either targeted OR automatically aoe targeted.
  4. Rackham

    Rackham Cupcake

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    Although I can run it currently, my "almost" deal-breaker would be the system requirements. I have a fairly new rig, albeit not an incredibly powerful one, but one that handles WoW, GW2, and other MMOs relatively well.

    So far, I haven't been able to get Wildstar up past 20fps and it's quite choppy overall. Granted we're still in beta and I'm hoping Carbine will do several more optimization washes before it goes to launch. I would like to be able to experience the game's graphics as best as I can!
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  5. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    Oh I agree that you don't need increased efficiency on both ends and that would certainly reduce leveling time, it is just the fact that both are so bad that it is constrictive, especially if you want to partake in other things than just questing (which I have to do or I will go insane), but still want to finish the story. I also agree that just reducing that harsh drop off would help a lot, especially. Certainly there will always be "the most efficient" it just feels bad right now.

    As a Soldier I expect more killing, I want more killing and I like the holdouts and assasinations, especially when doing them a bit underleveled as it adds a bit of challenge. What I don't particularly care for is demolition (interaction) or rescue (interaction) as there are already so many gather/interact quests already. This is what I consider the additional bloat, and sure it increases time to cap, but for me it degrades the experience much more than the value of the additional time. I mean, give me another holdout wave, or make the assasination take longer.

    I actually started Explorer as I like platformers, jump puzzles, races etc., so I figured that would be the best way to get the most of those. I really disliked it as it was just a ton of glorified fed-ex/interaction and I dislike the constant hot/cold game. Honestly, go stand in this very specific spot in the middle of the normal questing area does not scream explorer to me. They just don't have enough content for fully fleshed out and interesting paths, they have to reuse the same quests. Going back to do path quests would be even worse than just biting the bullet and getting through them the first time.

    None of those things on their own would be close to an issue, it is the combination of them that I have an issue with. If the adventures, shiphands, and dungeons were not as good as they are I am not sure whether I would want to grind out all the levels. But maybe I was initially expecting too much.
  6. Bloodclott

    Bloodclott Cupcake

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    Hmmm all good points.

    Thanks for actually giving me a good argument with no namecalling. I see this complaint all over the place by people who seem to want the game to not be an MMO.
  7. Fluttercrash

    Fluttercrash New Cupcake

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    My one "partial" deal breaker is gear in PvP. Having a second gear treadmill for PvP is just a lazy way to artificially extend gameplay. It turns PvP into a joke, so I'll just stick to Guild Wars 2 for my PvP. I'm going to do PvE in this game and not go anywhere near its PvP.
  8. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    Is there something specifically wrong with the gear, or just the fact that there is seperate gear for pvp and pve?

    If it's the latter, I don't know any other way to balance gear progression between the two. Otherwise, you have the pvpers being forced to raid or vice versa.
  9. Fluttercrash

    Fluttercrash New Cupcake

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    I feel there shouldn't be gear/stat differences in PvP. Just cosmetic gear. It's not much of a competition if you can't make a dent in your opponent. For PvE, the argument that we need gear with stats could be made because it's part of the RPG genre--but the same shouldn't apply to a competitive game mode.
  10. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    you'll be against people with similar ELO Ratings and access to the same tier of gear in that ELO bracket. what's the problem?? it essentially turns it into cosmetic gear - but bracketed so you're going up against people with similar skill - and the newbies aren't going to get stomped by veterans of the game.
  11. Nicodemus

    Nicodemus Well-Known Cupcake

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    Only thing that really irks me right now is I really want a seamless world. Parts currently are. But it does feel like later on your constantly jumping into a spacecraft. I'm fine moving between the 3 continents that way. Just not all the time. Other then that very excited, not much is gonna sneak up on me.
  12. Fluttercrash

    Fluttercrash New Cupcake

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    Besides the fact that it's just a boring, not-so-hidden grind, there are a few things that have to be considered depending on how the system works. I could win a lot and be put into a higher rating bracket before I have the gear for that higher bracket. Even worse, people with the best gear could lose in purpose to lower their ELO rating just so they can stomp on some scrubs. Hell, even if they don't lose on purpose, their rating could take a dive after a few bad games and put them into a lower bracket.
  13. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    Hopefully they will factor gear level as well as rating in their pairing system to avoid such issues.
  14. calebrus

    calebrus Cupcake-About-Town

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    Non-rated PvP will use gear score to match after level 50, Rated PvP will obviously use rating.
    47 minutes, 57 seconds (embedding the link with start time doesn't seem to work here)

    (or maybe it does and it just doesn't show in the media link?)
  15. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    I missed that livestream. Thanks!
  16. Menchi

    Menchi Cupcake-About-Town

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    Hmmm. My quick list:
    -Sanctuaries on a PvP server.
    -Overpowered guards.
    -Unattackable NPCs.

    I still have faith Carbine will fix these issues, but if they don't... I might just suck it up and deal. Who knows?
  17. Gardavil

    Gardavil Cupcake

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    As far as "dealbreakers" in WildStar, the game, the world, the lore, etc.... no dealbreakers for me. WildStar is one of the best MMOs I have ever played. I like how Carbine designed the game, I understand why they did the way they did. I love it already even though I only have 3 beta weekends under my belt. I pre-purchased and pre-subbed 3 months.

    But there is a dealbreaker for me that is not about the game ... the dealbreaker is me, myself. On two counts:

    1.) Physically I am having a terrible time playing the game. I've tried every class and the only class I can play is Engineer, and I have only gotten to lvl 14 and am having extreme difficulty. All other classes I can not get past lvl 11. The problems I have with my hands and coordination due to my medical issues is really giving me fits.

    WildStar to me is NOT a MMORPG, at least not like any MMORPGs I ever played before. To me it's a MMOFPS with all the dodging we have to do and how "active" combat is. I'm not used to that, never had that experience in another MMO. My medical issues are just making this worse for me. I have been trying to adapt and will continue to do so until my three month sub is over.

    2.) MMOs to me have never been a popularity contest, nor am I drawn to a MMO in admiration because it has more subscriptions or makes the highest profits in the MMO genre... I play the MMOs I play because I feel they are fun and enjoyable, because I value the quality of the ingame world or it's gameplay, or it's Lore, it's Story.

    I never played WoW, partly because I was playing several other MMOs over the years during the same time WoW was young and going strong, and I will admit this... some of the Players that used to play WoW have a belief / attitude that only WoW was a great MMO and the best ever and this really get's on my nerves. I was loyal to the MMOs I played too but I usually did not insult other MMO Players that chose to play WoW, but on frequent occasions ridicule is all I got from those I know who played WoW, both people I happen to know in real life and on forums in MMO gaming. Those people really got under my skin and I never really lost my distaste for that crowd, even though I am convinced that crowd was only a fraction of the total Players that enjoyed WoW. Most of the Player I have met that played WoW are good People.

    There are many great MMOs, because we all have different likes and dislikes, there is no one "best" MMO and there never will be. I think myself WoW *WAS/IS* a great MMO but I don't want or need fans of that MMO telling me any MMO I ever played was a waste of time or that I was a fail player because I chose not to play WoW.

    On the official forums almost every page of every thread I read references, comparisons, contrasts with, or mention of World of Warcraft. WoW was and perhaps still is a great game... but we players of WildStar aren't here to play WoW.... we are here to get ready to play WildStar, and I not only find all the WoW chat to be misguided and inappropriate, it also irritates the living $%^& out of me. It's getting on my nerves. That's why I say the problem is with me, for if I had thicker skin it wouldn't bother me... but it does. Thing is I get the impression this isn't going to change any time soon. There just too many people in the world that played WoW and they are going to talk about it on the WildStar forums, just like players talked about old SWG for years after the NGE.

    This is something I need to learn to overlook, to get past, no matter how irritating a few player can get with their loyalty to a previous MMO.

    So for these two reasons, both personal problems of my own, I may not be playing much after release.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
  18. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    You are so right. There is never a reason to bash other MMOs. I played many MMOs, some didn't last long for me, some for years (WoW). Doesn't make any of them better or worse than others (well, some companies made big mistakes early on but that is another discussion). But, sadly, this is the internet so vitriole is everywhere.

    Now, as far as the WoW comparisons go, there are many legit ones. Both games have many parallels and similarities and many of the Carbine staff worked on vanilla WoW. Blizzard has made choices that many players don't agree with and hope Carbine avoids such mistakes. That's valid, but of course there are people who will just say WoW sucks blah blah blah for the same valid reasons. That's just a more immature way to go about voicing one's opinion.

    And you are right about needing a thicker skin lol. I used to get worked up about stuff IRL and on the internet. And it's much easier to let the internet stuff roll off of you. You always have the same anonymity as the trolls. But trust me, life is so much easier when you can learn to not let things bother you. And it's a damn difficult thing to learn.
  19. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    Let me start by asking, when you say GW2 PvP, which aspect are you referring to? Battlegrounds, WvW, or paid tournament?

    You may have seen me always defending GW2 for the innovative things they've done for the mmo genre, and I applaud them for being bold enough to bring total equality into an mmo in terms of gears. But, I've mentioned that this equality backfires in some areas, and PvP is one of my least favourite aspect in GW2. Let me illustrate why.

    When everything else is completely equal BUT there is a factor that is inherently different from class to class, that means such factors cannot be mediated with other mechanisms. PvP tier gears also serve the purpose of balance between PvP and PvE: You reduce the damage of thieves too much across the board then they'll be worthless in PvE except stealth rezzing (which is what we saw at higher level fractals for example, if you bring a thief, his job is stealth rezzing, you don't expect him to burst anything down). You take away their burst potential through meddling with their resource system then they lost their class-defining aspect. There isn't a gear system that carves the PvE thief into something more reasonable for PvP, this means that balancing is difficult, and things like "can't use this in PvP" are added in, which in my opinion is just awkward. Evidence for this? Paid tournaments in GW2 almost always have a standard class combo that changes with each patch, for example a guardian or two as bunkers, necessarily a mesmer for portal/warp, the best combo get figured out within 1 day of the new patch every time. The top end tournament groups constantly switch their characters according to flavour of the month, because you can head into PvP at level 2. Mesmer burst very high right now? No probs, make a mesmer and in 10 minutes you're in the tournament. Another example: for a very long time everything PvP related in GW2 involves a big group, you only have the options of bg, tournaments, or WvW. Individual or small team PvP play was not available because it was not balanced, classes are different, and you don't have PvP tier gears to act as a transition filter as everyone gets the same exact gear. Yet another example: bg is one style and one style only --- point capture. There are quite a few maps, but all of them are point capture. No flag running, no hide and seek, everything is point capture. Because, if they implemented other types of battlegrounds, certain classes will simply be superior, again because there is no further balancing in terms of PvP tier gears. Unless you make every class exactly the same, which then is just boring and we might as well go play counter strike. Which brings me to the next point.

    PvP in GW2 was indeed, a lot like lobby games where you just go in and play, no need for progression or any particular care for your character. This was something that pleasantly surprised me at the very beginning, but gradually I wasn't exactly happy about --- It is an mmoRPG still, role play and character progression is still one of the core features that people look forward to. There is no lack of lobby competitive games in the market mind you, and I play many of them, from Starcraft Series to Counter Strike, from go-kart racing to bomb-man, tons and tons of games like that, all very well made and balanced. But if I'm playing an mmoRPG and doing PvP, I expect that it should take time and effort for me to progress, not abandoning my character and make a fresh new character and be able to join tourny in 10 minutes. I mean I certainly have done that in GW2 (many times), in a competitive sense I'll do whatever I need to do to win, but I'm just saying deep down I'm not terribly fond of "total equality" in this case. For this very reason, I preferred WvW, and there were some epic moments when organized big battles happen between servers, but massive group PvP isn't really the same thing with rated PvP, individual skill is almost negligible compared to good planning and shear number.

    I miss the days when my 3v3 team on WoW hit a road block and have decided that OK, we need to get better/new gears and try out a different strategy, so each of us goes our own way spending a weeks or two to grab better/new gears, then come back together and pushed through the rating that was blocking us. I can't say that adding in a progression system in PvP WILL necessarily give me this feeling back, but I do know that I for sure do not get that feeling when I play lobby competitive games --- Not that they're not fun, they just provide a different fun in a different mentality, and I still hope to get from an mmoRPG what only mmoRPGs can give.
  20. Nexus Elites

    Nexus Elites Cupcake

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    Well said, Felion. I play a lot of League of Legends, and you certainly get the feeling that people just treat each match as a throwaway game, because there is no real character advancement outside of ranked play, and even then, you still get the trolls. Even though its not an MMORPG, it does have the lobby style of gameplay that you're referring to. While they can be intriguing at first, they certainly lose their gameplay value over time, because at the end of the day, you want your time invested to mean something more than a win-loss record.

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