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What are your "almost" deal breakers?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Nexus Elites, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    I've played diablo 3 RoS for a while and I wish WS played the same ;) I am not following it as closely as before but I think that it would be nice if they could add number of monsters and reduce their health. On many gameplays I've seen ppl killing one mob for ages.
  2. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    sorry but i sincerely hope they continue to develop for those of us that dont appreciate the invasion of insta kill mechanics that are plaguing the genre. i just wish theyd go farther. further? cant wait to try out the increased level of elites, though I have a feeling they are too strong to solo in a lot of cases. Hopefully ppl will embrace this and actually group up, though I fear the breakneck pace of quest spamming will make this difficult.
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  3. Nexus Elites

    Nexus Elites Cupcake

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    I actually don't mind it taking effort (and time) to kill mobs, because if you could kill them in 2 shots, you'd never have to worry about dodging telegraphs, and it would defeat the whole purpose of the game. I understand what you're saying though. I kind of think the experience is quite low however, but maybe that's tied into the mob kill time. You can't agro 5 mobs and AoE them down like you could in other games.
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  4. calebrus

    calebrus Cupcake-About-Town

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    Further.
    Farther (root far) measures physical distance.
    Further measures distance in a figurative sense.
    Basically, if you're not talking about a distance that can be measured in space via inches/miles/kilometers/etc, the correct terminology is almost always going to be further.
  5. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    I've only played one weekend, but I liked the underlying mechanics. So my current deal-breakers are performance, and the bugs with the UI (nameplates not showing, group members not showing clearly, etc). I will try the open beta and if those are fixed, I will pre-order then. If they are not... Then I will pass until they are fixed.
  6. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well the performance issues should be resolved by launch as the game is not optimized yet and most likely won't be until right before launch. Hopefully the UI issues will be fixed next weekend since they just patched the brand new UI (and they most likely held off on some of those bugs until this patch because of that).
  7. Nexus Elites

    Nexus Elites Cupcake

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    Is there official word on whether or not the current beta build is optimized yet? I thought I heard somewhere it already was.
  8. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    I don't think it would be wise to say that it's fully optimized now, even if they already said it is. Mostly because there's still over a month to launch. Changes and patches could happen between now and then. Which would require more optimizing afterwards most likely.

    After digging through the patch notes, I think it's fair to say they have done some optimization, but I really don't think they are finished yet.
  9. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    Exactly. They may be close, but it wouldn't make sense to finalize optimization until they are ready for launch. Maybe for the open beta at the earliest. Not to mention they probably have tons of back end programs running for logging info and we arent even playing on the server hardware they plan to use for the live launch.

    Until they officially say that it IS fully optimized, it's pretty safe to assume that it isn't.
  10. Fluttercrash

    Fluttercrash New Cupcake

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    Taste is definitely a factor in the whole equal vs non-equal PvP debate, and I think that's where we differ. I play games like Dota 2, GW2, fighters, and shooters when I want PvP because, to me, PvP is a test of skill--and a pure, fair test of skill happens on an even playing field. Stacking the odds in your favor by any means other than improving your skills is simply not something I'd call fair competitive behavior. It's sort of like doing steroids or sabotaging the opposing team in a real-life sport.

    I'm with you though, on having something I can take away at the end of a match. I absolutely love being "rewarded" for my playtime (not that something we do for fun really needs to have rewards). Even in Dota 2, you get item drops and account exp (leading to extra drops) at the end of a match. And that's actually progression of a tangible sort, because going into a match with your default look just doesn't compare to walking in looking like an absolute badass. You know--you look good, you feel good, you have more fun. Seriously, in real life, a lot of people dedicate themselves to having a good career so they can have a nice car, a nice house, etc. It's not that different and it can be very fulfilling. In short, progression doesn't have to yield a statistical advantage to be meaningful. If anything, having an unfair advantage makes me feel pretty awful.

    Finally, the same point about unfairness applies to bad matchups (due to a bad matchmaking system or whatever). Heck, I 1v1 a lot in Dota 2 and I've conceded plenty of matches when it looks like my opponent simply can't keep up. But that's a whole 'nother subject.
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  11. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

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    PVP battle grounds are too zergy imo. Was almost not going to buy the game.

    The new info on warplots looks promising so I have preordered.
  12. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    BG zergs will happen in any game with objective based BGs. Randomly queue and end up against a guild pre made, especially in capture the flag style games. My biggest issue early on was all the people just trying get kills in Walatiki and completely ignoring the masks. Then again, I saw that in Warsong Gulch and Huttball too :/ (although neither WoW or Swtor had early level practice arenas at first, and arenas would fit those players better).
  13. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    Actually - we are. Cougar has said so.
  14. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    I stand corrected then :p
  15. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    I get your point, I used to play competitively in Starcraft community tourneys (when I was younger lol). I'm not saying that taking out as much side-influence as possible is an inherent problem, on the contrary I'm saying that's the norm in competitive gaming. But mmos are able to incorporate the role play factor into these competitions, it's something unique to the genre, no other types of game can possibly allow you so much character progression before and during matches. So I'm not disputing the fact that many people (myself included) enjoy the lobby style competitive games because they see it as more "fair" and "skill-based", I'm just saying that I support Wildstar's decision to hold on to the style that is unique to mmos. Ice-cream shops should not stop selling ice-cream because some people want coffee instead, so to speak.

    Another thing about competitive game-play. I know the argument well (distinguishing skill-based games), but in most argument they forget to mention the degree of things. That is, there is just a right ratio for everything, a different emphasis for everyone. Ultimately many underlying principals between these games are exactly the same, just a matter of "how much this" and "how much that". Whenever you put it in black and white, you always get counter examples that defeat the theory. For example, athletes do cardio and weight training, this is legitimate, but physical strength and condition of course has an impact on their performance on the field. Is it directly related to their "gaming skill"? Nope, it's not teamwork training, it's not technique training, it's just physical training. They have to do it everyday, it requires a build up over a long period. Unless you're saying that physical condition is itself a skill to be tested in the competition, but then by this logic wouldn't gear level also be a skill by itself? After all, some have it, some don't, those who have it have put work into it, and there are probably optimal ways of getting these gears fast. Quite like physical training don't you think? No matter how knowledgeable you have about basketball and how often you play, if you're overweight by 100 lb or more, your very athletic friend will still probably beat you after the first 10 minutes. Samething here, you need some basic gears (which are a LOT easier to obtain compared to good physical condition, as anyone who's no longer 18 can tell you) before you start destroying everyone alike.

    Broadening the topic, in many competitive games, above all, knowledge is a crucial factor, and it is unequal amongst competitors. Education is an advantage. Experience is an advantage. Genetics is an advantage. Fair doesn't mean ALL fair, that's the point of having a competition. If two people are exactly the same in every single game-influencing factor, they should have a draw. Every, single, time. Regardless of which game being played. The uncertainty of a match only happens because we don't know the details of certain aspects, and these areas are left for the players to exploit. In other words, fairness needs to be defined, and that's up to the specific game. Is it fair that basketball can be played between people with vastly different heights? Is it fair that football does not limit the competitor's weights? It is fair, because they allowed the variation. There are factors that you keep exactly the same between two teams or two players, and then there are factors that you don't control either because you can't or because that is the very thing you want to compare. Often those are inter-related. I would challenge the notion that GW2 PvP is more "skill-based" compared to say, WoW arena, simply because it provides equal gears. Or the fact that it is more "fair". It is certainly different, it has a much less of a climb to get into PvP, it lessens the gap between players, but "skill-based" isn't a very accurate word to be describing this difference --- because champion WoW PvPers will still be great in GW2, and vice versa. I'm not undermining any game, I'm just saying that the fairness argument along with the skills argument need to have some boundaries or else it gets messy. In conclusion, oh I definitely get that some people prefer the lobby style competitive games, but I do not think that "skill-based" or "fairness" are good arguments. If I am to answer that question, the fast ramp up time before getting into the match is very appealing at times, the detachment from in-game character can be appealing, PvP balance is typically very good in those games because they're ultimately PvP only and do not need to consider factors that can complicate the overall game. I think these are very solid reasons for preferring one type of competitive game over another, things like fairness and skill are less defined and hard to be used as a "differentiator".
  16. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    I tried to go back and edit my post above but can't find the edit button! :(

    First after reading my own post I wanted to add in that I was just furthering the discussion, not intending to start an argument... I shouldn't have brought up the whole fairness philosophical argument, it's a derailer, but my mind just went there and so I kept typing... :p

    And yeah I forgot to comment on this quoted section, I absolutely agree. Ultimately, if a game, any game, has a good match up system, a LOT of "fairness" issues will be resolved. Because the system will simply jump over the millions of potential influential factors and focus on the outcome, in a way it is an equalizer. As far as Wildstar goes, keeping in mind that you prefer shorter ramp up time, I guess we'll have to wait and see how PvP tier gears are implemented. If it just takes a few days of grinding to get the full set for every arena season (which means in a few days you'd be going head to head with equally and max geared people just like yourself), I'd say it's not far at all from lobby games like Dota (Dota with a prolonged gathering phase so to speak). If it is such that you will barely get the full set right before the next arena season starts, it can indeed be more about progression and less about each match (which is good for people who enjoy it like I said, but unfortunately you probably wouldn't like it). But we should still wait and see. On the other hand, I think gearing has minimal affect on world PvP and warplots, much like in every other game --- it comes down to the number of people and coordination, at the individual level the most detailed you'd get to is perhaps just specs/specializations, gears will be one of the "btw" considerations.
  17. Benevon

    Benevon Cupcake-About-Town

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    A better matching system is what I'm hoping for in this game, and I'm hoping it applies to BGs as well as Arenas. Because I totally get where Flutter is coming from. One of my biggest gripes with WoW PvP was getting stomped in random BGs by all the high ranking arena players with full arena gear for that season who queued just to roflstomp all the fresh max levels trying to grind out their honor gear. I wasn't into the "grind", I just like to have fun and I think Wildstar's match system will make things more "fair" that way.

    But on the other hand, I get the desire to have that gear progression amongst the more hardcore PvPers. And I think having the PvE progression and the PvP progression (gear wise) works for this style of MMO. You can't balance the pvpers if you only have raid progression gear because then they would be forced to raid to get said gear, or vice versa. So having separate gear makes sense. One could argue making the PvP progression more cosmetic than stats, but I think a lot of people would be upset about the fact they can't progress their stats while the "care bears" (PvEers) can. PvP vs PvE has always been a huge butting of heads amongst most games that have both.

    So, again, as long as their match making system works well at pairing up teams of equal gear/rating we will be alright IMO.
  18. Nexus Elites

    Nexus Elites Cupcake

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    +1 for your join date being my birthday :) St. Patrick's Day ftw! Lol, but to reply to your post, I think the hardest part of any MMO's PvP is fairness and keeping an equal playing field. Every system has its loopholes, so it'll be interesting to see how Wildstar pans out. I personally am not a fan of PvP, as I feel it brings out the worst in people, but if done properly, it can be a fun atmosphere.
  19. Bazeleel

    Bazeleel Cupcake-About-Town

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    Let's see:

    Is the combat solid: Check

    Does the game have planned out end game content: Check

    Competitive pvp: Check

    A dev team that isn't the spawn of satin: Check

    Over all good community: check

    No BS micro transactions: Check

    Doesn't have paywalls: Check

    Are the devs transparent enough: Check

    Do the devs actually talk with thier community and then listen to feedback: Check

    Ok I ran down my list of deal breakers and red flags, there are none for me at this point. Sure the game will have bugs, server issues, and balance issues for the first year but what mmo hasent?

    Honestly the game is really close to perfect and I don't say that all too often about games anymore.

    To actually answer the question. If carbine started to go down the route of GW2 and how Anet treats their community would make me cancel my sub and never look back.

    I think what sets this game apart from all others, even EQN, is that carbine is extremely transparent and open with their community. That is what makes a game good, having a open door to allow ideas and conversations to take place.
  20. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    There are dev teams that are the spawn of cloth?! Wat.
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