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What are your thoughts on Gathering?

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Anhrez, Mar 21, 2013.

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Wildstar Gathering

Poll closed Mar 28, 2013.
  1. Gathering skill restrictions

    58.3%
  2. Free form gathering enabled

    41.7%
  1. Anhrez

    Anhrez Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree with you.
    I like to think that Raw materials have a value X, when used to possibly generate a skill point or a specific item there can be value taken away from X. Copper Ore has the value to be refined for a skill point, a copper bar has already had the skill point removed from its value. Sure based on scarcity and complexity there will always be items that add up to more than its components, but for those I like to think the opportunity costs related to the raw mats are out weighed by the difficulty in either getting the pattern of the item, or some specific rank or reputation is needed to create and the grind of these can create value to offset the opportunity cost of the mats.
  2. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think things would work better if you just tore leveling out of the crafting process, so when your crafting ore into a sword you don't get any kind of exp.
  3. Patrician

    Patrician "That" Cupcake

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    The one thing I've always hated about "leveling" a gathering skill is the fact quite often you can run into the issue of being forced to grind it.

    If I'm done with an area and want to move on, yet I either forgot to gather or there were too many other people around me gathering and I didn't level my gathering enough to progress to the next tier, I now have to run around grinding it in a place I've already kind of "finished" or I risk being stuck forever behind with my gathering.

    If they choose not to go the free form route, and do tie it to its own level progression path, I hope they at least offer us the ability to buy training in gathering up to the next tier in that zone with in game currency, depending on a formula of how many skill points you are behind.

    This way if you get out of an area before getting to the next gathering tier, at least you might have the option to keep on going if you are willing to spend a chunk of change.
  4. Veckna

    Veckna Well-Known Cupcake

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    You get that no matter the system though - I used to gather on alts for raiding in WoW until I saw the AH prices for flask mats due to all the bots gathering. The only times mats were actually pricey (on our WoW server at least) was at the start of expansions when everyone was levelling up their tradeskills to the new tiers.
    Other than that you could do a couple of dungeon runs/dailies (when they were added) and buy a weeks worth of flask mats.

    The other aspect to look at is the chance for resource nodes to spawn bosses - surely that would indicate a system to support grouping to gather, which first come, first served resource spawns seem counter productive to. They may well have it set up like that but I wouldn't be surprised if they had considered this type of thing already and have something that doesn't punish grouped gatherers in place.

    Not that it makes a difference to me anyway as I tend to hoover up all manner of <REDACTED> that I can on my characters and hoard it for use later (6 alts with banks full of various crafting materials 'just in case' in WoW - guildies used to love me when they changed professions :D). I'll be making good use of the system no matter how it's implemented. Will be interesting to see how they approach it though - /crossfingers for Pax players trying it out.
    Anhrez likes this.
  5. Celtkhan

    Celtkhan Well-Known Cupcake

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    The argument about scarcity in private systems is a bit of a fallacy. Looking at GW2, the various "spawned" materials were in abundant supply and, thus, relatively worthless. It order to prevent people from quickly and cheaply maxing their crafts, they added in mob drops to every craft recipe. So rather than grinding metals/rocks, you're out grinding mobs.

    The worst part about this was that you needed so many of those "rare" parts, and the drops were completely random. Need another Claw? Too bad, you got a Scale, or a Totem, or a Vial of Blood. You could grind mobs for hours and still be unable to craft what you wanted. This is a bad system.

    If there must be scarcity in the system, I'd rather it be in the gathering, not the RNG. However it is implemented.
  6. Ashiktara

    Ashiktara Cupcake

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    Bots is a seperate argument. Also i do not agree with you. when i am leveling a char, like last month i made about 10,000 from selling gathered materials on a low level char. The only materials that don't sell are the ones that are in high supply.
  7. Veckna

    Veckna Well-Known Cupcake

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    /shrug I guess we have different ideas on what 'pricey' is. Low level mats were worth selling if you were a new account but dailies were better cash/time for me. I didn't think 10k was anything in WoW now (I had over 60k gold back when WotLK started and I didn't play the AH at all in TBC). Mate still raiding had offered me a couple of hundred thousand if I wanted to start up on his server again so I can't really see 10k being much to a capped char?
  8. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    You're right 10k wouldn't be much to someone who is gold capped but I think the vast majority of people playing WoW have never even been close to that. I would say most have money enough for most of their needs fairly easily but probably aren't to the point of dropping crazy amounts on those vendor mounts... for the most part, so 10k is a decent size chunk of gold.
  9. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    I tried to like this post twice, but it wouldn't let me!
  10. FlamingRuby

    FlamingRuby Cupcake-About-Town

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    To be honest i like more the idea of Gathering skill restrictions!Makes the economy better and the professions worth something!If everyone can grab anything they want they can simply ask a crafter for item and then you just lose the chance to make money with an other way!
    But i also approve the idea of being able to see the nodes/herbs only you.This will possibly keep the prices low but will also make a more friendly environment!Cause if people start to fight for a node and a herb will be bad!

    Well said!Farming mats at guild wars 2 was really bad!
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  11. Anhrez

    Anhrez Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well I have to keep expanding my questions on Gathering, as it seems a bit solid distraction for me while I await PAX info.
    We have heard about the possibility of nodes spawning mobs and even boss level mobs. How do you see this concept helping or hurting the 'tapped' node concept. I wish WoW would have had this in olden times when leveling fishing was so painful that it might qualify you as having an SM fetish. The bot'ers were there gathering and selling off to vendors like crazy, very few things were worth money but you could get the 'one ring' and it sold well. So my question.
    Do you see the addition of random mob spawns as an attempt to thwart bot'ers or add some rare mats in the game that are not found in the spawn of the node but still part of the gather skill? or a little of both?I realize NDA is in effect but anyone have more info in general terms on the mob spawning?
  12. FlamingRuby

    FlamingRuby Cupcake-About-Town

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    As far as i have see from the video they posted the mobs are kinda random and spawn when you gathering a node and its actually the back of a big worm!
    This can really hurt botters but i think they will eventually find a way to pass this also!Like botters mind of being killed?:LOL
    But i think that some small ideas that make game funny is good!And i like this one!
  13. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    I like both, but I chose free form as I like it the best of the two.

    For me their are other factors at play. Will it be a universal (I hope) AH or server specific? Will the nodes be open for all (I hope) or will they be spawned and one player only?

    Ultimately I would like to see a mix of the two.
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  14. Anhrez

    Anhrez Cupcake-About-Town

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    A mix of the two could be interesting, are you thinking PvP worlds the nodes would be a jump ball format to increase the feeling of competing for the planet and for the PvE worlds shared nodes?
  15. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    Umm, no. See what happens when I am distracted and try writing a post, I don't make sense. No, my thoughts were more basic. Restrict the nodes to only a gatherer that chose that skill but leave the node it self open so more than 1 player can get the material from it at the same time. No fighting over nodes.
  16. AltF4

    AltF4 New Cupcake

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    I like the hybridized gathering concepts that have been mentioned, but I do lean toward the restricted side of the spectrum. The point about a robust economy built on the back of limited resources is a valid one, I feel. It seems that to avoid devaluing resources, you need to keep at least some cap or limit on available supply, and restricted gathering is the better option in my mind (as opposed to actual restricted supply). As a gatherer/crafter, I'd rather compete for a moderate amount of designated resource types with say, 20% of the players than compete for a highly limited amount of all types of resources with 100% of the players. Granted, the ability to create personal resource nodes via housing (my God, this game is layered) adds another spin to the gathering economy.

    ----EDIT for price inversion discussion ----

    I think the reason we have raw materials valued at a greater level than finished items is pretty clear - you obviously get more for your character out of the materials. Sell a blacksmith a sword, and he has a sword. Sell a blacksmith the material to make a sword, and he gets skillups AND the sword. More return equals more value.
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  17. Bellaby

    Bellaby Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'd rather have tiered gathering limited by skill than have to rely on random mob drops to craft anything, like GW2...
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  18. Teerack

    Teerack Cupcake-About-Town

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    When you don't need a profession/level to farm certain things it usually stuffs your bags with matts and the crafting is more expensive and worse, so I really hope it's restricted.
  19. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    Runescape added random events to gathering. It was a nice brake when it happened.They didn't happen enough though. Hopefully WS makes them fairly frequent. They also can't stop boting.
  20. pseudo

    pseudo Podcaster

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    Mobs dropped a specific thing -- whether it was blood, claw, totem, etc -- and not just a random value... but I understand the frustration. I made a silly amount of money farming up large claws though! It was an actual grind... I remember now swimming through this lake for upwards of 4 hours at a time, killing this one kind of fish and then posting auctions while still flapping around. Honestly though... I enjoyed the grind. I know thats weird but grinding out mobs/resources is a wonderful break from questing at times :)

    But then again I am a lunatic, so take my word with a grain of salt.

    ----
    MY TWO CENTS:

    I am a bit of an old-school believer when it comes to gathering/node prevelancy. I believe people should be heavily restricted on what they can and can't gather/craft. The reason I think this is because it forces players to either 1.) WORK with other players (something we can agree is a positive in a game that is kind of centered around that whole 'multiplayer' paradigm) or 2.) make a legion of alts! In both of these cases it seems to me that the game is inherently stronger than it would have otherwise been.

    In the case of the first, players will be forced to rely on the skills of other people to get what they want. This builds a sense of belonging to the person on either side of the transaction and honestly (to me) is one of the most important parts to feeling a sense of ownership to the server you are on.

    But how does an army of alts make a game/server stronger? Because I believe that a higher number of high-level characters - no matter how many are alts - increases the buying power of the playerbase as a whole. This means that there is inherently more money in the economy, and more money means that prices for everything rises. The wealthier the playerbase, the more dynamic the economy. If someone wants to put in the work to raise 4 alts to level cap and create their own little empire, they will make a ton of money... but they will also become entirely invested in the auction house, resulting in more money for everyone else. To you political scientists/economists out there, this might sound an awful lot like trickle down economics and you wouldn't be wrong, but as more players have more money, they become more willing to invest said money into frivolous things (pets, rare house decorations, mounts, etc) and the lucky SOB who managed to get said rare drop now has the ability to invest in all manner of other things which may have to do with leveling crafting or even just weapons that look really cool.

    After an economy has matured (or festered, depending on how you see it), the legion of alts has probably stopped doing gathering professions at all as the player has successfully made so much money that it no longer makes sense for her to spend her time gathering materials and is better spent simply playing the market. From this point onward, she will no longer gather raw materials and will instead only buy them on the market for high-level consumables, items, weapons, etc, which create a higher profit margin for her but also allow those of us who don't play the game as much to have a cut of her profits which, in turm, trickles down to other players, bringing the prices of all materials up (read: inflation).

    I know you hate inflation, but (BUT!) you shouldn't! Inflation in a MMO is actually good for almost everyone. The reason is is that it gives lower level players unheard of riches early on in the game simply by spending a few hours gathering mats that everyone is too wealthy/important to go farm themselves. Remember selling a stack of 20 copper ore for 35 gold? I do! It's great. This does two things that are great: it gives new players a lot more flexibility since NPC prices are static, meaning that the price of your house plot is the same on day 1 as it is on day 90. To day 1'ers, this means that you are HEAVILY INVESTING in the plot and day 90'ers who spent a little bit of time gathering some resources are only investing a quarter of what they have. This is GOOD. This is inflation. It kicks ass. It makes new players feel like cane-twirling aristocrats... albeit artificially.

    Anyway, I got a little off-topic here. All I'm trying to say is reaganomics works REALLY WELL in video game economies and thats as far as my claim goes.
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