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what can Wildstar learn from Guild Wars 2?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by salluks, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Especially since the classes themselves do not scale as linearly as he seems to think they do. His mathemetical model certainly works, but that is not the one that the devs use.
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  2. Teerack

    Teerack Cupcake-About-Town

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    Expensive? You pay 40$ once... ever... it's cheering then most xbox or playstation games.



    If you look at the linkedins for Arenanet and Carbine you'd know NCsoft has hardly anything to do with the development of either game, so I'd don't see why Arenanet would influence Carbine beyond the influences every other mmo company has with a new mmo developer.
  3. Xevius

    Xevius Cupcake

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    Don't have so many loading screens and instances.

    Please.
  4. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    Lets see here, telegraphs have been in every mmo i have ever played. Rift, wow, aion, TSW (tons here), neverwinter. Its not a feature specific to guild wars at all. Dynamic events, most would credit them to rift or going back further to warhammer, GW2 didn't really do anything new here. Jump puzles are new to the mmo space but there's an entire genre of games built around jump puzzles called platformers, you might have heard of them. If anything i would call the core features of GW2 lack of progression and WvW which i don't see any games takeing from.


    And yet without exact numbers i can easily say that tor is still doing better then GW2. Just because it changed business models to make more money dosn't mean it was a failure. For the record they made their entire investment back in the first 3 months.

    All those "wow clones" are still alive in some capacity and still get content updates.
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  5. Afrotech

    Afrotech Cupcake-About-Town

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    Where in those sources or anywhere did you get the idea that ToR dropped it's sub model and is completely F2P? Did you even read those sources?
    My point was not to focus on ToR, but to point out that you often use wild exaggerations and sometimes plainly false claims to promote your argument that you can't back up with sources.


    If that's true then you did not clearly make that point in your original post.


    Yes I have, but they were not inspired by GW2.


    Maybe but what many of these wannabe WoW games forgot was that Blizzard expanded on and improved tried and true mechanics that already existed.
    Whereas the wannabe's were just copying WoW not much expansion or improvement.

    Point out to me what current or future MMO's will copy the GW2 philosophy of no depth + no challenge = fun.
  6. Jeremy Gaffney

    Jeremy Gaffney Carbine Studios

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    Actually a group of 11-12 of us went to Arena a few weeks ago and got a really good braindump on what they felt like did and didn't go well for GW2 over the last 10 months. I won't dish out their secret sauce for 'em, but it helped a lot.

    Most of it was stuff not so much gameplay related as above (the games are really way too different for that) but things like how they were managing process-wise to pull off such huge updates every few weeks, learnings on localization (yeah boring but useful to us), and running through their analytics - for instance game usage data where we could see what kind of content players were using the hell out of vs. avoiding completely because it gives hints on where we should best put our dev efforts (hint: replayable systems and elder games).

    Actually super informative, truth be told.
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  7. Jeremy Gaffney

    Jeremy Gaffney Carbine Studios

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    Jeez, I didn't even remember saying that.
  8. Afrotech

    Afrotech Cupcake-About-Town

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    the fans are listening too. ;)

    Great reveal today btw with the Mordesh my new launch day race keep up the great work.

    edit ..yes the Chua was the worlds worst kept secret :laugh:
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  9. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Right, which is why I compared it to WoW, which also didn't do anything new, but it sort of crystalized a lot of the stuff that was floating around and made the best form of it for its time.

    Well, DAoC had WvWvW, but they made it more of a core feature.

    I'm highly skeptical of that. They spent a fortune on the game and their sales were lower than GW2s. If they made their bank back in the first three months then GW2 must have paid itself off with preorders alone.

    Yes, but many are just treading water, profitable enough to keep live, but not profitable enough to care, and perhaps taking years to recover the development costs, if ever.

    Various articles. They've retained a stub of a subscription service, but they changed the core game to F2P. Honestly I think it's one of the worst pricing models out there, but they had to do something. If you're going to go F2P, don't keep a sub around, it just pisses people off.

    Whether they were inspired or whether it was just a happy accident doesn't really matter, the point is that a lot of recent games use very similar elements that GW2 is currently the best at (before anyone complains, no, raids are not one of those). ;)
  10. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    They had 1.8mil subs after 3 months, 1.8mil x 90 dollars (60 for the game and 30 for 2 more months of game time) = 150mil right there not even counting collectors editions. They had a bigger launch then any other mmo in history to my knowledge.

    Like i said, tor,rift,and every other wow clone made their money back, they just didn't explode like wow did. which is fine, if the game is making content i don't care how small the sub numbers are.

    Its the only F2P model i will tolerate in mmos. I love everything i have seen in wildstar but if there's no sub option, im out.

    You do understand how long it takes to develop a game, right? MMOs coming out this year could not have been influenced at all by guild wars.
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  11. Afrotech

    Afrotech Cupcake-About-Town

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    First you said they "dropped the subscription model entirely" now you're saying they "retained a stub of subscription service" and only you could describe half a million subscribers as a "stub".

    You continue to prove my point about false claims and exaggeration.

    "Happy accident" lol no such thing. If GW2 is the best at it I honestly have no clue but jumping puzzles in WildStar or any other game I have no problem with.
  12. zeewut

    zeewut New Cupcake

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    This is probably a repeat but the main reason i left gw2 was because of the terrible combat. Different weapon types for different spells? hmm....

    Down leveling just felt like a gimmick that became a chore. Grind out your levels then go back to finish the map... gimped. I know a lot of folks liked that idea (Maybe) it just felt like it was forced on us to extend content a bit longer.

    Cash shop. The mmo market has been flooded with money grabs lately. After experiencing it over at neverwinter recently, I'll never play a f2p game with a cash shop with any sort of advantage to gameplay via micro transactions. Although, GW2 is ify in their model I still don't agree with it. Buying currency and potions etc, to bypass a portion of the game at a much faster pace is just wrong imo. Charge 10 bucks/month with a vanity cash shop.

    I was blown away by the environment of Gw2. Can't say I've felt that way while playing a game since i first plugged in EQ and was in awe. Not because it was "Pretty" it just felt like i was apart of the landscape and it greatly added to the immersion.
  13. Sharuko

    Sharuko New Cupcake

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    WildStar is fundamentally completely opposite than GW2 in core game design elements, which is a good thing. But the biggest lesson for WildStar is don't release the game before it is ready. GW2 launched too early, and was not ready for launch. Too many bugs, little to no end game content (although they say that was their plan), no group finder, no things like dueling and features people expect in MMOs.

    But I do think the leadship at Carbine know what they are doing. And will not release a unfinished game.
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  14. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Having a F2P version of the core experience is pretty much dropping the subscription model, it's essentially like at museums where they ask for a "$5 donation" to visit them. The point is, they were sub-only, it was unquestionably failing them, and so they went F2P and it stabilized. Whether they shut down the sub option or not isn't really relevant.

    Well, it didn't launch perfect, but it did launch more stable and feature complete than most MMOs.
  15. salluks

    salluks New Cupcake

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    i think what it means in terms of expensive is in game gold.

    buying even a decent weapon is atleast 5 gold for example. which is far too much for a casual player.
  16. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Nah. I used to think that, but once you get to 80 the money flows, and nothing you need prior to 80 costs more than 15s. I'm nowhere near as rich as the fat-cats, but I've had plenty of gold to buy full exotics for eight characters if I wanted (but instead I chose to hold out for random drops and dungeon gear). Even if all you do in a day is a single CoF P1 run, or a few world boss events at level 80, you should accumulate enough straight cash and sellable loot to make a gold per day minimum, 2-3 gold on average, several gold if you're very lucky or very efficient (like if you hardcore farm certain content or if you get an Exotic drop). I found three Final Rests over the month of June (still no Precursors though).

    The only things that are actually prohibitively expensive in the game are Legendaries and a handful of very rare and complicated to produce weapons.
  17. Afrotech

    Afrotech Cupcake-About-Town

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    Another one of your wild exaggerations to try and fit an irrational argument. The F2p players contribute to the game but, half a million subs at $14.99 = $74,950.000 a month is hardly "dropping the subscription".

    I don't really care what ToR's business model was it was just an example that I called you out on. The point is your posts are filled with false statements that you try to distract from when you are found to be ignoring the facts or stretching the truth.

    In the past 3 pages you went from saying ToR has no subscriptions to ok they have a few subscriptions to ok subscriptions are irrelevant.

    Your arguments have no consistency.
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  18. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    If your options are make 10mil in profit or make 20mil in profit you are always going to pick the bigger number. EA analyzed the market and thought they could make more money going with a hybrid model. It doesn't mean the game wasn't making money in the first place. And like i said they made their money back in the first 3 months and they laid off a huge part of their dev team right after launch meaning they didn't need a huge sub base to stay in business.

    Its easy to be feature complete when you claim that your endgame content is just going back and doing leveling content. They had what, 1 level 80 dungeon at launch? Imagine the outcry if any other mmo did the same thing. It also didn't have a LFG tool which a lot of people would call a base mmo feature and it lacked any kind of mod support.
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  19. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    This thread is just a big piece of troll bait, and anyone arguing with Ohoni is eating it.

    Notice how he edits all of his posts to remove the origin of the quote and poster so no one can actually follow the thread of conversation?
    This allows these endless, meandering, circular debates where even if someone makes a valid point, it is quickly lost in the shuffle because Ohoni removes the ability to view anything in context. The flipflops he makes on his own points are commonplace, its hard to see much reason to do this other than to drag these troll sessions on longer.

    Personally I would have banned him a long time ago, every single thread he's a part of turns into him trolling everyone else.
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  20. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    It also has the benefit of not giving you a notification so he has a chance at getting the last word. This is exactly why I stopped responding to him unless he says something truly stupid.
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