Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Xalon, Aug 3, 2013.
I want to get into mages since they havent given a pally class which i always play
As I see it, and this is forcing the classes to conform to the WoW analogues, Spellslingers are Mages while Espers are Priests.
You could argue that Spellslinger is the archer class (I don't say hunter because that carries the pet connotation) but I would argue that archers have been mages with bows instead of staves since EQ rather than the archers/rangers of pen and paper games.
Warrior = Warrior
Stalker = Rogue
Spellslinger = Mage
Esper = Priest
"Rifle" class = Archer/Ranger/Hunter
"Medic/Alchemist" class = Shaman
Of course, WildStar is not WoW, but since so many of the Carbine devs worked on WoW, and since MMOs are MMOs, it's not unfair to compare them.
Indeed. They are trying to get away from the "typical classes". But for many, It is these standards that we can relate to something. No matter how hard they try, people will always call the classes in wildstar the classes in WoW and AD&D. Maybe next century?..
Nothing wrong with the "classic" classes. I mean, name it a knight, a soldier, a warrior or a fighter - it's all the same class. Personally I would have preferred the Warrior had been named Soldier or Mercenary, to better fit a sci-fi setting. Though, I suppose the Granok, Draken and Aurin might call them warriors. Hmm, I might start a thread about that.
I would have loved to have seen a more Shadowrunner-esq roster of classes, with hackers and tech ninjas etc but obviously you still need to be accessible and recognisable to a majority of players.
Why do you classify Esper as priest?
It's not lore-wise a priest, just that the closest WoW analogue would be priest. If we were talking about GW2, I'd say it was an illusionist.
It's just that if Spellslinger is the Mage, then Esper is the Priest. Both are ranged casters, but with different flavored abilities.
I'm personally really excited to play a game with a limited class system again. A lot of games now are trending towards letting you level every class on one character, or mix an match the abilities from every class, etc. This is fun initially, but I find it often ends up feeling bland, and it also forces people who are into hardcore raiding to level absolutely everything. I guess it's nice to be able to do everything on one character, but personally I think re-rolling is a more charming solution. I like my characters to feel like unique people. It's not very immersive when everyone can do everything!
I too enjoyed this style initially however, the novelty faded quickly. I enjoy having set, established roles/classes. It makes it easier to put together groups/raids. On GW2, one thing I cannot stand is the dungeon system. Without the holy trinity, there is confusion, and a bunch of players being "OK" at everything rather than set roles to be epic at.
Both the Spellslinger and the Esper use mana as a resource, both wear light armor, and neither obtain their abilities through divine intervention (officially), so I would say that they both fall within the mage class.
In WoW both Mages and Priests wear light armour, have mana and divine intervention is a lore facet, not a game mechanic.
IMO both Spellslinger and Esper, as well as Mage and Priest fall into the "ranged-caster" category. For that matter, so do Archer/Hunters/Rangers in most games.
As to whether divine intervention is required for a healer to be a priest is debatable. WoW barely, if ever, touches on the source of player-character Priest healing abilities (other than in the name), and if they had named it simply Healer or Mystic instead and kept every one of the abilities the same, people would not have questioned it.
Also, we're not calling the Esper a priest: just saying that if you have to compare the Esper to a WoW class, then it would be Priest.
Which will play most like a Mage from WoW though, I believe is what the OP is asking, and I believe that to be the Spellslinger.
In fact, if you want to quote the website -
Role: Ranged DPS, Healer
Equipment: Dual Pistols
Armor Weight: Light Armor
Ability Resources: Spell Surges and Mana
Primary Attributes: Dexterity (DPS), Wisdom (Healing)
Ranged DPS + Healier = ranged caster (and remember, archer classes are still ranged casters). Dual pistols? Dexterity? That says Archer to me. But Spell Surges and Mana are definitely Mages.
Further more, we know that Spellslingers use both blasts of magic and sigils. That sounds like Mage gameplay.
Role: Ranged DPS, Healer
Armor Weight: Light Armor
Ability Resources: Mana and Focus Points
Primary Attributes: Magic (DPS), Wisdom (Healing)
Again, Ranged DPS and Healer = Ranged Caster. Pysblade? I don't really know how to fit that into Mage or Priest, maybe more as a kind of mystic ninja? Magic and Wisdom, well that could be Mage or Priest but Mana and Focus Points say Priest to me.
Gameplay wise, the Esper appears to use illusions and mental energies to deal damage, heal, buff and debuff. That sounds like priests using divine looking beams of lights or invigorating holy energies. You know?
So I think what you guys are trying to say is, neither is the mage class because neither play like a traditional mage.
Why try to make comparisons to other games when the devs have made new classes with new mechanics and gameplay intentionally to mix things up? Any comparisons drawn are a result of your brain jumping through mental hoops to rectify your desire to fit a square block into a round hole. They're different, just accept it.
To the OP, try both classes and see which you like better at launch. That's probably the best way to decide since they're both magic-y ranged DPS anyways.
Oh, wow me too. Mage or Pally.
A lot of people will prabably say Esper however Im gonna say Spellslinger they can "Blink" and their skills have more Glyphs and other forms of Magey flavor. The Esper feels more like a Psionic or Mesmerish class.
No one is doing that at all, mate. The Carbine Devs are ex-Blizzard devs that worked on World of Warcraft and have said themselves that the game draws inspiration from their previous works. After all, you do what you know.
Secondly, an MMO is an MMO. It doesn't matter what names they give their classes or what kind of animations they execute with their abilities, you're always going to be use the same molds as that is what people want.
Lastly, human brains have evolved over 50,000 years to not only recognise, but to actively seek out patterns. That includes similarities and the familiar. So please don't try to act like you're the only one that is "above" it.
Comparing a brand new MMO to the current juggarnauts and the games that those are based on is what we do.
Spellslinger is a wizard. Esper is a sorcerer. Both are mages. Happy?
I was pointing this very thing out. Humans see patterns where none are and think it's ok to go on believing it. You can draw correlations between the two all day, it doesn't make them the same or even similar. You're never going to get a definitive answer because it's all based on whose brain is prioritizing and categorizing the different attributes and making the final tally. Ultimately it's a waste of time.
For me, the "mage class" is more about lore and feel, rather than game mechanics. I like playing wizard-archetypes in most games, and I'll probably keep an eye out for one of those in Wildstar. Both the Esper and Spellslinger classes seem to cover different aspects of that archetype.
Edit: Went off topic and then found a thread ON that topic!
This is why it is always best to have a wide spread of tastes when it comes to class aesthetics and playstyle. When you limit yourself to such a narrow view, especially by just being picky or only playing one game, you're going to have a hard time shifting to a new game.
I myself am glad I have several styles that I've become quite accustomed too that I can fall back on.
You do realize that WoW is not the bases for fantasy classes… right? Not only that but it was not the first MMORPG either. These classes were around long before MMORPGs, and the Priest has always been linked to the divine in some way.
As for the rest of your definition of what is what… way to make the facts fit your ideas. This is a prime example.
This could also fit the Illusionist of the Mage class in pretty much any RPG that has an Illusionist; including the original AD&D.
Some of them are from WoW; some of them are from AU, EQ, Asheron’s Call, DAoC, CoHV, etc. They are also gamers; they often talk about the various games they have played over the years, which includes single and group FPSs, strategy games, RPGs both computer and P&P, etc.
I went back and read my post and realized that I left out a very important word; I left out “could”. Both of these classes could fall within a Mage archetype, but they could also fall within a Priest archetype, because in some RPGs such as D20 and early Shadowrun (Haven’t checked out the rules in a few years.), the difference between a Priest and a Mage is what the player chooses and the GM allows.
Bloody hell, not one of you lot. Everyone knows WoW wasn't the first, no one cares.
I think we need to get the OPs definition of "mage"
I think the MMORPG definition is a low armour and HP, high DPS class with lots of AoE.
In that case this game might not have any magi, as all the classes can fulfill 2 roles, and therefore there are no dedicated DPS classes. But if that's what you are looking for a DPS spec Esper, Spellslinger or Hand Cannon guy may be up your alley.
Esper is the blue mage