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What sweetens a pre-order/CE for you?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Malisent, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    I'm extremely wary of giving in-game benefits to players who buy CE's. Beta Access, Larger Inventory, Early Access are fantastic. Titles are also good. Mounts (if you still have to pay for them in game, you just get a different horse) are good too.

    But giving extra inventory space, bank access and shorter cooldowns is getting too close to the pay to win. I want things that don't provide people an unfair advantage because they shelled out an extra $100, otherwise it breaks the game, albeit slightly.
    Khrusky and CRB_Gortok like this.
  2. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    @ JarNod

    I understand your dilemma, and I don't disagree with disliking pay-to-win. I don't want game breaking benefits for special editions either. But, this calls in to question the definition of "game breaking." Game breaking models, in my opinion, are those which allow a player to perform in combat better than his/her peers. All the items I have mentioned are convenience items, not items which grant players the ability to be better capable of completing challenging content. Larger Inventory and bank access simply means that player is going to be making fewer trips to a city to deposit items. Its equivalent to getting a minor speed boost (and ultimately earning XP at a faster rate), because it means you can spend more time in the game world doing quests.
  3. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    There is vanity items, convenience items and power items.

    Power items is pay to win.

    Convenience items could be used to get ahead of others on a more longterm planned road. Having space to farming mats to sell when the market starts exploding. Travelling fast between rares using a hearthstone often. If it makes you able to be on top of content more than the next guy instead of sitting at the bus stop waiting for the bus, then it is walking a fine line between ok and unfair.

    Vanity items is fine.
  4. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    *Shrug* There are also people who can devote 14 hours a day to playing a MMO, and some people that can only devote 4. The people who can spend 14 hours a day playing a MMO are going to level faster, giving them access to better mounts faster, access to crafting mats faster, and ultimately increasing their chances of making money on the Auction House. Is this, "walking a fine between ok and unfair"? A person's availability isn't something that can be controlled by a game. So, in my opinion, giving players who are willing/capable of spending money on a CE convenience items, is not any more "unfair" than John Doe getting to play for only 2 hours a day because he has a job and kids he has to take care of.
  5. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    True enough, and I agree. I have a better bag on my own item list of convenience stuff I would love in a CE/pre-order.

    Was just pointing out that convenience items is not 100% off the hook, they can be used to get ahead. The whole idea with them is to be more efficient.

    The difference for CE rewards is between getting a 24 slot bag instead of a 20 slot bag, or getting a 40 slot bag instead of a 20 slot bag. The last is scewing the odds too much.
  6. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    This is completely different and I find it highly amusing that people bring up time arguments. If having more time to play is considered unfair since they get better gear (usually) why shouldn't we just allow people to buy the items they would achieve through their excessive amounts of time?
  7. Maddog Charlie

    Maddog Charlie Cupcake-About-Town

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    Uh Oh here comes the Dominion reveal per Guides request, stand back everyone the Dominion are in town :D
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  8. Guide

    Guide Well-Known Cupcake

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    Yea, I wasn't joking, I really want one, too! Imagine a holographic hamster ball with tech lines on it! I don't expect physics, but man it would be cool to run across a map in a freaking ball!
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  9. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    Maybe settlers can build hamster ball terminals. :)
  10. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    @JarNod

    I'm not saying the amount of time a person has to play a game in the course of a day is unfair. We all have lives to lead, and we all make choices about how to spend our time. But people who have more time to spend in a game = quicker access to things in game. This is no different than saying, people who have more money to spend on a game = quicker access to things in game. In my original post and all those subsequent, my point was that the items I would like to see in the CE are not "game breaking" and they are convenience only. It is convenient if you have 14 hours to play a game 5 days a week and can collect enough resources to make a killing in the Auction House. And it is convenient if you are given items as part of a Collector's Edition which make the leveling process less tedious. It is not a convenience item, as Siega pointed out, if you're allowing players to buy all items available in the game via a cash shop. Yes, a person who plays more will get better gear faster. But, they will also have to earn it by completing content under the same encounter challenging circumstances as everyone else. I, personally, do not see convenience items as a gateway drug [totally tongue in cheek comment] to pay-to-win cash shops. Rift gave out teleports in their last expansion. SWTOR gave out free mounts. Guild Wars 2 gave out free bank access. Numerous games have given out larger inventories. There is precedence for these items in Collector's Editions, and furthermore, none of the games I have mentioned has degenerated into a pay-to-win model.
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  11. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    Just as an fyi, if you click reply you don't have to say @ someone's name. :)

    First of all, "giving" free extra stuff is not just a convenience thing. If you spend less time in town because you can hold 5, 10, 50 more items in your bag, while not being exactly "gamebreaking" it IS giving you an advantage. Letting someone buy a mount with real $$ is giving them an advantage because they no longer have to spend the money on the mount. Look, these things are NOT gamebreaking, but they are more than convenience. If developers gave CE buyers an extra 100g in game, would that be any different?

    Correct me if I'm wrong... But non-CE players can get more inventory space without buying the CE right? SWTOR players can buy mounts, just not THAT one, right? The GW2 one is convenient, the SWTOR is cosmetic. I haven't played Rift in a long time, but my guess is that everyone has a teleport already and the CE teleporter is on a longer cooldown. Which means that most people will barely use it anyway. If I'm wrong and not everyone has a "hearthstone" already, then it is kinda gamebreaking.

    I'm all for giving CE people as much as possible. Give them cooler looking starting clothes. Or a mount (that they still have to buy) but looks better. I want to know who bought the CE. What I don't want is for CE buyers to get a +5 sword at the beginning, just because they shelled out the money and it's convenient.
  12. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    It would be cooler if the clothes were ones you could were throughout the characters life. Like something that fits over your equipment or give you unlimited dye to color your equipment however you want forever, or at least one piece forever.
  13. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    By the way, I've thoroughly enjoyed discussing this with you. It's nice to have you on the site :D
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  14. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    I did know I can hit reply, but it wasn't loading the quotes. :) Ah well... technology.

    I have played several games in which the CE grants the player a bigger starter bag. Usually, this is a bag you cannot replace, and the four or five other bag slots are. The bigger starter bag is a minimal upgrade - maybe an extra 4 slots or so. But it is a bag that those who do not buy a CE will never be able to upgrade. You are correct in asserting that all players have access to mounts in SWTOR, and typically its a difference of cosmetics. But, this also means that as your character is leveling up, he/she will not need to spend hard-earned quest money on his/her first mount, presumably allowing the character to upgrade in other ways. This is a HUGE perk at the beginning of a game, because often mounts are the biggest money sink in a new game. This puts you ahead of others who will be forced to spend early game money on a mount. So, its not just cosmetic. Again, its covenience. And in Rift, which also gave base game CE owners a mount, you can use your CE mount the moment you log in on a level 1 character. You don't have to wait till you hit a certain level to use it. Whereas, if you don't own the CE you will need to be around level 14-18 before you can afford to buy one at all. Rift does have an ability called "Soul Recall" which allows players to teleport to a home city. But, the teleport allows you to travel to ANY city with another porticulum, and has a cooldown of 60 minutes. It does not share a GCD with Soul Recall. Again, convenient.

    Personally, cosmetic items are the exact thing that will make me NOT buy a CE. The novely of cosmetic CE items is short-lived. People walk around and go, "Oh... cool, you have a pet cause you spent extra money on a game. YAY for you!" Its feigned excitement. No one really thinks the best mounts, the best pets, or the best of anything from a game comes from a CE. For mount and pet collectors, its just nice to have in the collection. But these almost always get put away in favor of mounts and pets that have been earned doing the harder content. My ability to show my peers that I completed the hardest mode of a 10-man raid with my mount is a lot cooler than showing them I have the money to buy a CE.

    I absolutely agree that I do not want players to get gear upgrades via a CE. No CE perk should make a player better able to tackle enemies in combat.
  15. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    Ditto! Its nice to debate topics instead of argue about them. ;) This seems like a great community and I'm very happy to be here.
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  16. Guide

    Guide Well-Known Cupcake

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    Yea, it's an awesome community. I hope it stays that way.
  17. Kurik

    Kurik Super Cupcake

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    Welcome to the community, it's nice to have you here. :)
  18. Wreck

    Wreck Cupcake-About-Town

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    I would want a mount (surely) and get offered a beta spot, and notice i said "offer" because not many people want to access beta because it's more of a spoiler to them. But overall I guess a mount and some of those awesome Sketches and "Making-of" designs and what not, and soundtracks! definitely soundtracks.
  19. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I think the answer to this is that all the convinience items/upgrades in CE/pre-order should be available through a cash shop too as single items -- maybe with a 20% markup, so getting it through the CE, you simply aquire it at a bundled discount, but it is still available for everyone else - if they pay its full value in cash shop coins. If you do not buy a CE because you are only interested in that one bag upgrade, you can then still get it for real money, like everyone else who bought it through the CE.

    Personally I would love to be able to upgrade my primary bag a number of times, and it is one of the things I am willing to pay a symbolic amount of real money for. For fairness and avoidance of pay2win effects on convenience items, making upgrades available ingame also would be nice too, maybe as the extra reward for epically long and engaging quest chains.

    For pre-order I would apply the founder title and a vanity outfit of the players choice. Additionally the name tagging and maybe getting to start a number of days early to lower the initial storm at launch day. Pre-order is special, it is a visible support of the game before it is launched, and those players should be rewarded for not sitting back and waiting for the reviews to come in or price dumping of the game. Having pre-orders getting a couple of days ahead can be part of a tiered launch program.
    As for the rest, I'd go for appearance items, that makes what you are rewarded ingame look different, if you want it to.

    Example: For CE I would apply a vanity pet or pet appearance and different ground mount appearance - meaning they need to still aquire a mount in game, but they can change how it looks.

    When it comes to appearance, I would love to see some sort of ticket, claim or token system, so you as the player can choose which vanity item of a set category you want, so not everyone run around in the same thing. Even if it is just a variations of colors. It kind of takes the special out of it, when everyone rides the same rusty bike :eek:

    I do not do retail, so for out of game items, I do not give a fig, they do not effect ingame anyways, right?
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  20. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

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    Agree with Siega except for wildstar I would like Real life stuff for the collector edition. I think a hat would be nice (not a beanie) some sort of identification card(mentioned before in thread) like the star citizen ones but not. ie they are just like dominion and exile passport cards that are generic and just have difffrent serial numbers for each citizen.

    [In star citizen each class of donor had like a different level which Wildstar does not need]

    it would be nice if the exile one has a make shift feel to it and the dominion one looks polished and bureaucratic :p Both will be in the CE because you never know which faction each customer is and it would be cool to have both.

    a few small statuettes and prop models etc..

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