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Why are the Exiles Considered the "Good" team, again?

Discussion in 'WildStar Races' started by MrJayBob, Jul 15, 2013.

?

So, Are the Exiles Good, or do they just want War?

  1. Good

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  2. Rebels

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  1. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    However: The Aurin were not primitive by any stretch of the imagination. And they did understand the penalty if they were caught aiding the Exiles. This is, in part, why the Exiles left a distress beacon so that the Aurin could contact them IF the Dominion showed up.

    If the Exiles HADN'T explained beforehand... Well that would paint the Exiles in the darkest light I can think of. Using a culture for resources and then abandoning it, knowing full well it will likely be overrun or destroyed in retaliation... And not even giving the Aurin the heads up?

    Thankfully, they did. And we are in the situation where the Dominion is clamping down on Arborea as a method of cutting off the Exiles from resources. A terrible situation that is, unfortunately, needed in such a drawn out guerrilla war. The Aurin knew what they were getting into and took their chances.

    -Rachel-
  2. Sweetloaf

    Sweetloaf Cupcake

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    Didn't the Exiles hit Arboria for a refuel/resupply? I doubt they had any intentions of setting up an established supply line on the Aurin home world, otherwise they would have left far more than a distress beacon would they not?

    From all available sources the Dominion is painted as a manipulative, occassionally forceful and arrogant super-power. Seems to me that the Cassians/Luminai in charge are solely interested in their own personal power plays, and they have the means to use/abuse other races as their current needs change. The Draken are akin to a modern day commonwealth, autonomous yet ultimately confined by the whims of the Dominion and I'd be surprised if the Chua didn't share a similar relationship.

    I don't think the Dominion are inherently evil, but there is definitely a malicious sort of corruption within the ranks of the /Highborn that doesn't sit right with me. Though, by no means are the Exiles golden angels of purity. However anarchy is definitely not what they have in mind, probably more of a utopian socialism.
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  3. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    Irrelevant. If you've given aid to fugitives once you'd probably be willing to give it to them, again. Cutting off their supporters was the only way to ensure they wouldn't use that resource, later.

    You should read more about it. It's actually confirmed by a Dev that neither side is "Good" or "Evil" and that the Dominions actual -real- goal is enlightenment of the whole universe. Like the Federation without the interference clause: They go in, make a deal, and hand out knowledge, education, technology, and advancement. They were presented as manipulative and evil because it was a fun dichotomy between the two videos. In the actual lore they're both painted pretty evenly, in the end.

    You're close. Mostly what the two sides are about is unification and seperatism. The Dominion wants to have one massive interstellar society in which individual cultures flourish with the free exchange of ideas and flow of goods. The Exiles want independent sovereignty with interconnection as a loose federation of independent states joined primarily as a trade mechanism.

    The deeper you get into the lore the more entangled and interesting everything becomes, and the stronger those two patterns become. Each side is "Evil" from the other's perspective. But as an outside observer they're really less about right and wrong (both sides are against what is morally wrong) and more about societal structure.

    Though I do wonder what the Usurper's policies were that shattered the Dominion in the first place!

    -Rachel-
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  4. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    The new races COMPLETELY frame exactly how the Dominion is in relation to good and evil, while showing off the Exile's own prejudices exquisitely.

    The Dominion crackdown on Grismara was warranted, justified, and appropriate. A contagious infection on the order of worldwide zombification. By quarantining the planet they ensured that the contagion wouldn't spread beyond one world. The Exiles, seeing the Mordesh as "Helpless" sprang the zombies out from under Dominion control, but revile their erstwhile companions to the point of being openly insulting.

    Meanwhile Malvolio's unwillingness to discuss the Chua isn't because they're "Cute" or "Cuddly" but instead because they're horrible little psychopaths. Malvolio isn't ashamed that they're cute or enslaved scientists or anything... It's because they're cruel and violent. And the Dominion is ashamed that this member species is aggressive and destructive.

    -Rachel-
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  5. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Quote:

    So once again, the Exiles AINT the good guys ;)
  6. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    There's also the fact that neither race was strong-armed into joining the Dominion. The Mordesh, being originally in line with the Dominion's philosophy, were invited. That was only withdrawn when they... became a planet of crazed zombie cannibals, as mentioned. And the Chua, whose potential was believed in, were patiently invested in and allowed to develop on their own, despite their treatment of the ambassadors. They weren't forced to join, they were allowed to join when they were ready.
  7. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    The Exiles now have a cannibalistic space zombie kept barely under control by their meds.

    How does this influence their 'good guy' reputation?
  8. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    It indicates that they may be willing to risk the safety of themselves, the Dominion, and the Universe to tweak the Dominion's nose.

    They broke quarantine onto a planet where a bunch of terminally ill individuals were and may have doomed all life to the fangs of a planet's worth of zombies.

    -Rachel-
  9. Sweetloaf

    Sweetloaf Cupcake

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    It would appear as if there is a severe lack of consistency with the Dominion's recruitment process. Not to slam the writers but it doesn't make much sense for the galaxies most efficient ambassadors to botch a few planetary alliances through arrogance/misinformation and then show overwhelming patience and pseudo-benevolence on the others, when the niceties yield far more positive outcomes.

    Hope it's all ironed out by release, I'd hate to see such jarring inconsistencies ruin an otherwise awesome story and game.
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  10. MrJayBob

    MrJayBob New Cupcake

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    for the Mordesh, Lore wise I was close but exact. I wasn't expecting them to be (Carbine's Twitter) "The Mordesh, once the most beautiful race in the galaxy, now the most tainted". which the Contagion seems to be only those who were injected with the Elixir, and then the cure for the madness, so no real worries about it spreading (except outlaws who probably try and steal some secrets for themselves from Grismara) but of course the Dominion didn't know that and even they did, keeping it Contained is Priority Number 1.

    Overall....I really like the Mordesh, Once Sophisticated and the Envy of the Galaxy for their Beauty & Alchemy. Now Fallen from Grace for foolish Desires, Shunned by their Comrades, and having to do the Dirty Work

    Really gives them that Anti-Hero Vibe which I'm bit of a sucker for (Anti-Hero or Righteousness are the most appealing to me, not much middle ground lol...)

    Edit: It does seem weird that the Guy who caused the whole mess for the Mordesh, Victor Lazarin, appears to be the "Racial Leader" for the Mordesh.
  11. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    It seems like the Dominion went after things they thought would strengthen their empire. They were interested in the draken and granok as warriors. Then the chua as scientists. I wonder if a lot of their inconsistency has to do with who's sitting on the throne at the time?
  12. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    While a lot of good points are being made, I'm seeing a lot of justification by those defending the Dominion of activities that amount to nothing but extremely inhumane actions that would be conducted only by the most tyrannical of governments. It's important to separate pragmatic reasoning from the moral compass, but you can't explicitly ignore another life form and claim that this is a proper action. It isn't. It's a sociopathic argument and ignores how the well-being of a population contributes to a society.

    The aurin didn't "deserve" to get their planet attacked. No offense, but this is a terrible argument. They helped refugees who were in need and got attacked by their adversaries because of it. You can justify it with cold logic but it ignores the fact that the Dominion reacted in a completely inhumane manner towards a group of people that were just being helpful. There's a reason the Dominion is clearly the malevolent side in Wildstar and this is one of the big ones.

    I can't speak for Gnox because I don't know as much about the story for them. As far as I understand it, both sides are equally guilty of some messed up <REDACTED>, but the granok suffered the greatest from the result.

    I think it's clear to say that the Dominion is generous to its allies but are mass murders to those who decline to join the empire. It's how the Dominion treats its subordinates that gives it more light, but is equally darkened by the sick <REDACTED> they do to those who won't join up.

    The Exiles are lightened by the fact that they won't tolerate an abusive, oppressive regime and that they've come to the rescue of races that were on the verge of extinction because of the Dominion's genocide of its enemies. They are however darkened by their tactics of warfare. They need to be flexible in their tactics to overpower an enemy that has more raw military might and likely numbers than the Exiles will ever have.

    I agree with the conclusion that the factions are not under the alignments of good or evil, but it is obvious that even with all of the lore that has been revealed, I don't see how anything bad that the Exiles have done compares to the Dominion's genocidal crusade. In fact, there's little if anything that's more twisted than that.

    I'm looking forward to this game's lore though and how it all plays out. How will the aurin and mordesh get along? It's like the undead and night elves of WoW being on the same side.
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  13. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    Aurins and Mordesh interactions are going to be interesting.

    An aurin will be like "Awe! A Granok! Hugs! Ooo! A human! Hugs! Oh! A Mordesh! Erm.....I'm not hugging that."
  14. Sweetloaf

    Sweetloaf Cupcake

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    I actually meant to put that bit about the Emperor in as well. I'll have to reread the timeline and see if the oddness is tied to some maniacal Luminai or not. If so, it paints a rather stark picture of the Luminai. Hard to like a guy who'd thrash a whole planet because you insulted their culture and they broke your toys.

    Also, it doesn't help that in my mind the Dominion come off as babies first Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k. They do a lot of the same messed up <REDACTED> with little/no justification.
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  15. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    Show me in any document where the Devs used the term "Genocide"

    You won't find it, anywhere. In any of the lore. I've looked. The only time Genocide comes up is from Exiles.

    They did strip mine the Aurin Homeworld, Arborea. And claim it in the name of the Dominion. What does that mean for the Aurin that were left behind? They were probably dragged into Dominion Society as citizens or refugees of war. The Lore specifically states that the Queen of the Aurin intends to return and liberate her people.

    This came up a lot in my Theoretical Exposition thread. Genocide has never been part of the Lore on the Dominion.



    I'd say that's more an issue of having different diplomats. Not ever Ambassador is the same sweet wispy haired grandfather figure. Even among the Mechari there is individuality and uniqueness. It's not like the Emperor is involved in every day to day action of every member of the government.

    -Rachel-
  16. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Perhaps genocide wasn't the right word, but I'm not going to get dragged into a semantics dispute.

    The point I was trying to make was that Arboria got pillaged hardcore by the Dominion, killing anyone that got in their way which includes the aurin. They didn't just attack the planet but went after the aurin themselves simply for being good-natured, benevolent people. If it's not genocide, it's pretty damn close. They eradicated those who got in their way and probably took some captives for slavery or what have you. It's still a despicable reaction to the aurin giving temporary aid to the Exiles.
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  17. Teerack

    Teerack Cupcake-About-Town

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    Anyone that voted anarchist doesn't understand the meaning of the word. The exiles have a government and their own leaders. They just don't want to server dictators....
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  18. Steampunkette

    Steampunkette Cupcake-About-Town

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    Genocide is the intentional and (sometimes nearly) complete murder of a race or ethnicity. That's not what happened if you read the lore.

    In the canon, the Dominion landed on the Aurin planet, Arborea, found out the truth of what happened, and annexed the planet as part of the Dominion. Then they landed their harvesters. Resistance groups fought back against their new overlords and the insurrections were put down with superior firepower. At no point is there mention of the Dominion gunning down innocents or noncombatants.

    When the Aurin sided with the Exiles, regardless of their reasons, they chose a side in a war. If Germany and France were to go to war and Spain were to help France Germany would be justified in attacking Spain for aiding their enemy. That's how War works.

    Even if the Spaniards were helping France out of the kindest portions of their massive and all encompassing hearts: They still entered the war on behalf of France. And in the doing they made themselves open targets for the Germans.

    -Rachel-
  19. Sweetloaf

    Sweetloaf Cupcake

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    That's all very good, but the Emperor was explicitly involved with the sacking of Gnox. He was enraged by the news of his ambassador's deaths, which let's face it was their own faults, and attempted to ERADICATE the entire Granok population. That there be genocide, friend. Maybe they haven't explicitly said genocide, but that little blurb definitely implies a bit of the 'ole ultra violence directed specifically at a single race of sentients.

    Also, there is still no reason for the Mechari (master negotiators) to have acted the way they did. Are they not supposed to do years worth of observations and study until they are confident that the race is compatible with the Dominion? Would they not have recognized the way of stone as a large enough hindrance that they could have just left said planet to Otis's own devices? The Granok didn't have technology of any sort before they arrived, so there was no chance of them leaving the planet and becoming a threat.

    Also, before I get the "well it sets a precedent for declining the Dominion".. Who else besides the Mechari would have known if they just moved on? Maybe the Emperor, but really, Was he really so prideful that he had to make an example out of a primitive race that was absolutely zero threat?

    Just the way I see that whole area of the lore. I do understand that the Dominion has done some positive things as well but I just can't align myself with a bunch of sycophant Imperialists when there's a group of independent, yet bonded races that just want to live in relative peace.
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  20. Xandita

    Xandita Cupcake

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    This part confuses me. I think a lot of what you're saying is implied in the lore. If there are resistance groups and the new overlords have superior firepower, then you can imply people did die if the resistance was put down. There's no need to actually mention it.
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