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Why are the Exiles Considered the "Good" team, again?

Discussion in 'WildStar Races' started by MrJayBob, Jul 15, 2013.

?

So, Are the Exiles Good, or do they just want War?

  1. Good

    40.7%
  2. Rebels

    59.3%
  1. snowLeopard

    snowLeopard New Cupcake

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    Hey guys!

    I am sorry I am sooo late to join the party, but this thread has been such an interesting read that I just couldn't walk past.
    I read the lore pages and then watched the trailers. Interestingly, before seeing the videos I thought that Dominion were "good" guys who were tainted with one "evil" deed (Arboria) and Exiles were the "bad" guys who were exonerated by doing one "good" deed (also Arboria). Perfect symmetry!
    Needless to say the videos present an opposite view on who is the "good" and who is the "bad", although I do genuinely struggle to identify myself with the faction where only 1 race is acknowledged as being "intelligent". I am sorry if my view offends you, but IMO the Exiles consist of 1) rebel traitors (or their descendants) 2) rock throwing fanatics who are barely evolved enough to have communicable speech 3)Forest druids (cute and friendly, and clearly innocent victims, but still not exactly enlightened intellectuals). Mordesh are the only redeeming race.

    To give historical analogies, my Suomi friend above mentioned the Winter War (also I don't feel this is a right analogy as this was a conflict between two sovereign nations, rather than between a nation and an anarchist group), but this has got me thinking about 1919 and refusal of King George to grant exile to his cousin, czar Nicholas II's family (not to czar himself) out of fear for political and social repercussions. General view of contemporary British historians is that George was right because he has put the interests of his nation ahead of the interest of his cousin's family. Although I am sure entire Royal Family did sympathize with the cute Russian princess girls who were later brutally murdered. I guess in a way you can look at it as British historians agreeing with Steampunkette in the old "every action has consequences" maxim.

    Having said that, I don't agree with Steampunkette that Aurin collectively "had it coming". Their queen, however, is the real villain here, who has dragged their nation into an avoidable conflict and then one way or another abandoned her people. Her escape from Arboria perfectly confirms Xlugon's view that people at the top of every society care only about their own self-preservation.

    I don't agree with Xlugon on the notion of universal "right" and "wrong". Every person has their own view on what is right and what is wrong. Aurin who lost her/his loved ones on Arboria and Cassian who lost his/her loved ones during the initial rebellion on the "Gambler's ruin" will both be equally right and equally wrong in their hatred of the opposing faction.

    To wrap it up, I definitely do not feel that Exiles are "good" as a faction. Aurin (except their queen) are. But if you add a spoon of sugar to the bowl of <REDACTED> it doesn't turn it into into a bowl of honey.
  2. FelixAkuma

    FelixAkuma Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yep i would deffinatly refer to them as rebels over "Good" .. Rebels and Pirates!

    [​IMG]

    Fear the SPATULA!! :p
  3. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    The videos so far has a tendency to picture Exiles as slightly obnoxious pioneers and likable diamonds in the rough, while Dominion are entitled (the whole semi Godhood thing they have going through something that happened thousands of years ago) and compulsive obsessive snobs.

    The humans on Exiles is willing to fight for freedom, while the humans in Domions are willing to fight to oppress other races to expand their own station in life and keep their exalted historic importance.

    The "cute furry" race in Exiles is a feral treehugger, while the "cute furry" race in Dominion is a homocidal psychopath.

    The Exiles warmongers are as likely to take a round at the local brewery as dealing out a can of whup-smurf, while the warmongers of Dominion lives to prove themselves the best of the best in hunting games, wether the prey is sentient or not.

    The artificially enhanced/preserved race of Exiles lucked out in their own scientific arrogance, making themselves their greatest victimes, while the ditto in Dominion has a non-existing humour and noteworthy lack of respect for life when it comes to obtaining results for Dominion as efficiently as possible.

    I do understand why some get the distinct feeling that Exiles are more on the likable side of things, the kind of people you'd feel better about meeting in your neighbourghood, though maybe not in a dark alley. Dominion noone in their right mind would like to meet wether or not it is in a dark alley.
  4. Dayor Knight

    Dayor Knight New Cupcake

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    I really do enjoy the way that lore is evolving in this game. I really hope that it continues to be reflected in the actual content of the quests and the world. I would hate for there to be this wonderful nuance and subtlety in the back-story, but then in the actual game we see the Exiles being self-sacrificingly noble and the Dominion being needlessly cruel.

    That cuts to the heart of the matter though; what is viewed as "cruel" in times of peace or from a distance is actually the most ethical and logical of actions from a certain standpoint. It call comes down to the mindset of the individual (and the society) viewing the action. I get a VERY Roman vibe from Dominion. The Roman approach to war was typically so violently ruthless that their opponents would break in short order. By raping, pillaging and slaughtering for a season they found they could avoid a protracted and ultimately far more devastating war.

    Caesar (in)famously cut the hands off of 4,000 prisoners of war and then scattered through prisoners throughout Gaul to act as a constant reminder of the cost of rebellion against Rome. It was terrible and even deplorable, but in the war the preceded his action over 100,000 Gallic warriors died. The war drug on and on for over seven years and seemed as if it would go on for at least another two or three. Caesar did not want that to happen and could not think of a more "noble" way to prevent the continual uprisings and individual tribal rebellions that had worn on for far longer than it was realistically possible for them to actually win the war. Given the context of the situation, this deplorable action likely ended up saving lives in the long run.

    History is littered with these examples. Given that the Dominion (in my eyes) are akin to the Roman Empire at the beginning of their decline (but the height of their hubris) it is logical that their attitude reflects a people who have been in charge of the entire known universe for as long as anyone can recall. They don't think they are always in the right, they KNOW they are always in the right. The results of their past actions have proven it. Look at the glorious empire those actions have forged! You can argue the morality of the actions all you want, but there is no disputing that they work and work well.

    So that is the heart of the "moral" question, I think. Is it noble to fight a lost cause against a vastly superior foe in a war that will ultimately lead to countless deaths, or is it more noble to submit to the yoke of an outside oppressor and preserve the life and land? Of course the modern mentality is that dictators and conquerors MUST be resisted at all costs... but if the cost if the life of your friends and family, is that really a conflict worth waging? At what point does admitting defeat and attempting to salvage what you can become the more "noble" act?

    /Why yes, I do plan on siding with the Dominion, why do you ask?
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  5. Nunchi

    Nunchi Cupcake

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    As stubborn as I am, I like this.

    I always learn a ton reading your arguments, lol.
  6. Packetdancer

    Packetdancer Addon Cupcake

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    The Dominion is about order, about stability and prosperity, at the cost of freedom. They believe the ends justify the means to keep the galaxy orderly and on the path the Eldan intended.

    The Exiles are about freedom, at the cost of stability or prosperity. They'd happily let the galaxy burn as long as they were free to choose that path.

    That's my simplified take. :)
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  7. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    Probably the best concise synopsis I've seen of it so far.
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  8. filanwizard

    filanwizard Cupcake-About-Town

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    Being that I want to be an Aurin Spellslinger I tend to be pro Exile. However I already expect to have quests pop up that require me to do morally questionable actions. There is no such thing as a good guy in any story IMO, There is just the side that has committed the least amount of genocide.
  9. Dargenus

    Dargenus Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think it's worth separating the concepts of "good" and "competent".

    The Exiles, at times, are outnumbered, or just not very good at what they do. This has no bearing on whether or not they're the good guys or not. Overall, I don't think the Exiles are terribly good because of all you mentioned, I think it's more that the Dominion is quite obviously worse.

    And the main reason the Dominion is worse is, as another poster here mentioned, because the general impression I get is that the Dominion just tries to crush all opposition, essentially ruling by "Might makes Right". It doesn't matter how organized or powerful the Dominion is, if anything, that's an argument against it - they're this super advanced, 'civilized' group, who can't seem to offer any care or compassion to someone who disagree with them, and their own recruitment of other races (Draken, Chua) seems to be all about gaining power.

    As much as I'd like that, it's very hard for me to see Dominion as not evil. They're the archetypical super-power that tries to shut everyone up with: "Look how strong we are" instead of a sound argument. And, no, things like mass murder and genocide is not the pragmatic solution to all your problems. It's the solution of a toddler having a tantrum. I hope the dev team brushes their presentation up a bit and also provides some variety within the Dominion culture, so that I am not walking around torturing people for kicks or something.
  10. Tiiria

    Tiiria Cupcake

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    As I read once in another thread, the exiles are mostly comprised of races that won't take responsibility for their own actions. The granok were invited into the Dominion, killed the ambassador, started a war, were exiled by their own people for it, and blame the Dominion. The Aurin harbored traitors (the exile humans) during a civil war and paid the price. The Mordesh were in the Dominion, and were in an awesome position - they had wealth, technology, everything they could want, EXCEPT immortality, and their greed and ignorance drove them to try to attain it, which ended up starting a highly contagious terminal disease. The Dominion pretty much just quarantined them because they didn't want to straight up kill them, but didn't know what else to do. Then the Mordesh got help from the traitors, and blamed the Dominion for not helping them when they caused their own dang problem. And the Exile humans... I'm not really sure on why the rebelled, they just did.

    So... yeah, I'd say the Exiles are exiles for good reason. The Dominion is just doing what the Eldan told them to do, and the Eldan basically said "do this or die." So, I mean, who would pick death??

    The only people the Dominion has opposed from the outset are the Aurin (and maybe the Exile humans, still not sure how that went down), and that's because they helped the other side.

    In summary, the Exiles are not "good guys", but they're not entirely necessarily "bad guys" either. And the Dominion are DEFINITELY not just "bad guys." In fact, I'd call them MORE GOOD than the Exiles. Both sides are pretty much neutral-morality opposing sides. Who's in the wrong? I'd say the Exiles more than the Dominion.
  11. Mordakai

    Mordakai Cupcake

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    One thing I love about Wildstar is they don't take the lore "too" seriously...

    Take the Chua for example. They cover the Mechari with corrosive black ooze... and are welcomed into the Dominion. Never mind that Mechari don't have a sense of humor...


    The whole history is very tongue in cheek, and it's probably best to just pick a race you like, and not worry if it's good or evil.

    I like the Granok, because they are exiles from their own world. And they are made of rock, smoke cigars, and drink beer. What's not to love about that?
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  12. FelixAkuma

    FelixAkuma Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yup i agree, it just so happens that i like the Aurin, Granok and Mordesh..

    And i very much like the Exiles..

    Sooo yep :p
  13. filanwizard

    filanwizard Cupcake-About-Town

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    Part of me suspects the Eldan are going to end up the true evil of the setting. They kind of sound like they will be playing both sides somehow against each other just to see what these "young races" do.

    I do get the feeling as well that if the Dominion came across the Aurin at random they would have pillaged the world anyway because I do not see the Aurin wanting to join the dominion.
  14. MrJayBob

    MrJayBob New Cupcake

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    When I started this thread a while back, needless to say that even though I had been following the game for the past couple years, really going through the Dominion and Exile lore made me a bit..."bias" towards Dominion while still seeing exile for what they were, just not the whole picture (lots of important tidbits lefts out of the racial backgrounds that you have to dig for) and obviously you see throughout the thread on how my view changed (which even though I'm a lore-guy, I usually don't get that bias)

    Now with all that being said, me taking bit of a break from the lore and just focus on content and whatnot.

    Here's my take: I can see way much more from a Dominion perspective than the Exile.

    For me, the Exiles are doing what they believe is right, and that there shouldn't be a single government that controls all which I'm for, but here's the thing, it has been like this for the past hundreds of years, and people have lived very civilized and privileged lives, like a lot do in our modern day society, regardless of class, which the exile uprising to me, would do more harm than good, by giving people a false sense of oppression, the dominion's extreme past actions does not help this. This needless to say could lead to war and protests on other planets which means most likely, more bloodshed.

    What will happen if the Exiles win? From my perspective (can't make that clear enough..): the galaxy will be plunged into total and complete war, with a lot more faction fighting for control. because the peace given will be temporary. now it could like 1, 2, 5, hell possibly even 100 years, but something will happen, and the war will be bigger. And let's be honest, it'll most likely be because of humans, cause we're greedy pricks and I'd would wager while they have human blood flowing through them, The Luminai also have Eldan blood which very much could help them fight that, and again if the Human Exiles win and take the hot-seat, they won't have that extra bit to help them (not saying Eldan blood is the holy ticket, but it definitely helps)

    (on the Eldan Quick: from what Chad Moore (the lore guy for Carbine) has stated that the Eldan are most likely all dead and that a greater threat is coming, which is most likely why the Dominion was created in the first place, and again if the galaxy is fighting with itself, then how the hell can they work together to defeat a common enemy, and would the galaxy even be worth saving at that point?)

    A more accurate Comparison of the Dominion: The Dominion to me(yeah yeah I know, you're getting sick of me saying "IMO" ;) ) is: a more comical version of the The Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40K

    Cassian: Adeptus Arbites
    Draken: Imperial Guard
    Mechari: Space Marines (Iron Hand Chapter Specificly)/Inquisitors
    Chua: Adeptus Mechanicus
    but that's just my take and quite fitting imo (ha! you read it again)

    (Below has nothing to do with lore and you can skip this. Just me pointing out my faction choice of the moment)
    Now I've been speaking in favor of the Dominion this entire time and you're probably wondering: "Wow Bob, you much be really into the Dominion and going full anti-exile! so...why do you have an Exile Icon for your Profile Pic?" Simple, while I can see from a Dominion and being into lore, I also care a lot about character creation, and vibe of the faction, as well, you guessed it, Racial Lore.

    So here are my Reason:
    1. From What I've seen in terms of character design and customization, I have enjoyed what the Exiles have to offer much more so over the Dominion
    2. while I always go towards super dark and serious outcomes, the fact remains that humor is a very major part of the game, as much as its dark and serious side, although the serious side is a bit hidden, and because of that, the Exiles have a much better Vibe and Feel to them
    3. Chua Suck. Plain and Simple, character design if fine but not my favorite by a long shot, my issue with them though is their racial lore, its very one sided and lacks depth from what we know so far, they all one just one gear, Mad Destructive Scientist, that it, which if it was a single character or class like that, it wouldn't be a problem but an entire race? that is very lazy imo (wonder how many times I've said "IMO"?) and more Fitting of a NPC race that could've been Dominion specific (which I find very ironic that they were announced alongside the mordesh who imo have the best racial lore in the game)
    4. Mordesh are my favorite Race, and if you can't play what you like, you'll just end up screwing yourself enjoying the game less

    now with that out of the way, a lot of options/lore hasn't been shown yet, so my faction choice is on the fence and just like beta, is subject to change. for those who are curious and actually care
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  15. filanwizard

    filanwizard Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think the biggest issue is dominion is "Join or we nuke your ass" if I grasp the lore right. When they went to the Granok, They said no and the robo-diplomat said it would be in their best interest to join. Now to be fair when someone says that I at least get the image of the mafia guy who if you do not buy his insurance your store may explode some night. His insurance was in your best interest...
  16. kaimarshall

    kaimarshall Cupcake-About-Town

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    The poll question and choices are a little misleading. You can rebel against something; doesn't mean you're bad.

    The way I see it, the Exiles are neither good nor bad. Only reason they're doing what they do is because of the Dominion. They're just a bunch of <REDACTED>s who think everything needs to be the way they want it to. Also, they didn't even care about Nexus until the Exiles decided to claim it as their own (correct me if I'm wrong); out of necessity for the simple fact that the Dominion had to come and ruin their lives in some way or another, mind you.

    Yes, the Dominion are in a way or the other involved with the Eldan, but I'm pretty sure the Eldan were not as evil and eccentric as they make them seem.
  17. Tiiria

    Tiiria Cupcake

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    The Dominion discovered Nexus shortly after the Exiles. The Dominion want it because it's the planet with the most remaining things from the Eldan they had found, and they want to know more about them, in addition to the fact that that was their mission from the Eldan to begin with. It was the Eldan's home planet. Also, if you're in a civil war, are you really gonna let the side just retreat and hide away so they can come back to bite you later? Probably not.

    edit:
    sources:
    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/the-game/races/cassian.php
    http://wildstar-central.com/index.php?wiki/cassians/
  18. kaimarshall

    kaimarshall Cupcake-About-Town

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    Thank you for clarifying my doubts about the discovery of Nexus :) Doesn't change the fact that the Dominion are a little too full of themselves, and things must be done as they say because they say so. To me, those are the evil ones. But of course, there's no such thing as true evil, or true good. Not when it comes to human and extraterrestrial beings (in this case), anyways.
  19. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Wait.....you make no sence....first saying that the Eldan are most likely not as evil as they make them. Then say you think it's evil to say that others should do as you say....may I quote the Lore here then:
    So that's kinda the same as the Dominion said to the Granok......now don't tell me the Eldan weren't as evil as they make them look.....I think the Eldan had the same mind-set (if not worse) as the current Dominion ;)
    You tell me what their mission (the one you speak of) then was?

    Tell me :rolleyes: Oh lord...tell me about their secret mission given by the Eldan themselves!
  20. Tiiria

    Tiiria Cupcake

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    You're welcome. :) Cassians specifically seem full of themselves, yeah. Probably what happens when you're chosen by pseudo-gods for some crazy destiny. And I agree that there is no black and white good and evil.

    So far all we know is, step 1, get to Nexus. That is all. XD I'm sure there's something more specific, though. I really want to know more about the Eldan. o.o Or maybe that's really all the Cassians know too, and they're looking for the next piece of information.
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