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Wildstar will fail if this isn't changed

Discussion in 'Guilds, Circles and Warparties General' started by KADAMA, Jan 25, 2014.

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  1. KADAMA

    KADAMA New Cupcake

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    If CARBINE does not make the proper adjustments this game will fail eventually. I do not care about the reassurances of people who reply to this thread, I do care about ideas and opinions. What I will explain now is what I have experienced and what other players have experienced and are still experiencing in a particular game. My only incentive by creating this thread is for the people who will eventually play it not experienced this, but then again I have no vote in this. So I will just share the facts and my experiences and hopefully CARBINE does the right thing. I will give my opinion along with facts and explain how I reached these conclusions and why they form my opinion. Most of the following information is from: Wildstar & World of Warcraft
    I will start with the bad news, here's the link:

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/guilding_the_space-lily_with_wildstar.php
    ---Guild Vault - Full permission sets for withdrawal limits and repair limits
    Customizable guild ranks with full permission sets---

    This is where the problems start you're giving one player the ability to gain currency at the expense of others and to decide if a player gains access to something that will without a doubt help him/her progress thru the game. But it's worse because it's only one person who decides if potentially hundreds of players will access a feature. Now I can understand not trusting an unknown player who just recently got accepted into the guild, meaning: "Customizable guild ranks with full permission sets".

    But then I would ask "who decides this besides the guild master?" And this is also where it starts to get dangerous and opens the door to corruption and influence players. If the only person who decides who his/her guild Officers is the Guildmaster, then it's also dangerous for the moral of the guild (players) because again they have no say on it unless the Guildmaster wilingly offers that opportunity. And if the Guidmaster does offer that decision to be made by the guild then the problems would be:

    1-how do the Guildmembers have an insurance that their vote will be enforced? 2- there is no automated system that makes sure someone can't change the results

    These are problems that need to be addressed to avoid conflicts that can gradually contaminate a positive gaming experience within the game.

    ---Optional guild taxes (5% of your loot will get contributed to the guild vault if your guild leader decides to turn this on) ---

    This will destroy the game as a whole if not done correctly. Here we go:
    I used to play World of Warcraft, but the game started declining when the developers introduced a reward system for guilds, and this is why:
    Every Guildmember that belonged to a specific guild would receive a benefit that helped them progress thru the game. However these benefits could only be earned if the guild as a whole would do specific things in the game to increase a experience bar, there are 30 bars in total and for every bar players(the guild) filled they would receive a benefit, like it lowered repair cost of their armor being repaired from damage, you could travel faster, level faster by gaining more experience, gain access to exclusive vehicles. Here's the link for all:
    http://www.wowhead.com/spells=-10#0 7

    These are all great, there's only one problem and it's this one:
    ---Cash Flow Guild Perk, Rank 1
    Each time you loot money from an enemy, an extra 5% money is generated and deposited directly into your guild bank. In addition, completing guild challenges will reward gold directly to your guild bank

    Sounds familiar?

    ---Optional guild taxes (5% of your loot will get contributed to the guild vault if your guild leader decides to turn this on)

    Why was this one specifically the bad one? Because it allowed the guildmaster and the officers to use that currency as they saw fit. Now don't get me wrong I am not saying everyone did this but a lot of players did, and they still are doing it. The problem comes with two things both required for the progression of a character withing then game.

    1- The guild progression experience bar which gives access to special ingame items that were either exclusive or helped with the progression of a character in such a fashion that it was too profitable to not attempt to access it, and as a result to accessing them it resulted in time saved, days, weeks, months. Here are the links:

    Guild experience bar ingame:
    http://www.guildox.com/go/imgnews/guild2.jpg

    Items for character progression:
    http://www.wowhead.com/npc=46572#sells:0 1-2

    2- Ingame currency, which is required by everything to be accessed. Player abilities, player mounts and ability to use them, repairs, armor, professions, crafting specific items, pretty much everything in the game. And this is great, the problem is the guild perk I mentioned above, because it allows 1 player to gain access almost at no cost to something the player NEEDS anyways to progress his/her character the way they see fit. The gold icon + number under cost is the currency needed to gain access to these things in the game. Here are the links:

    Player abilities and profession:
    http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2010/07/cata-trainer-ui-1278056625.jpg

    Player mounts and the ability to use them:
    Mount: http://www.wowhead.com/item=44234

    Ability to use that mount http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/amiyuy01/Games/WoW/betaridingprices.jpg

    Repairs:
    http://www.staronion.com/maiev/img/lol_gbank_repair.jpg

    Crafting specific items:
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=44501#sold-by

    Armor costs:
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fmfseIxSd...0/WoW-Auction-House-UI-Changes-Armor-View.JPG

    Lots of currency is needed just by the game alone. I excluded other purposes for currency because it's too long for this. But why is this guild perk bad?

    Because players would create a guild or multiple even just to gain the extra profit from this perk on purpose. They create a guild and invite as many people as they can so that the guild perk procs for every guild member that loots (5% of currency) and at the same time increasing the expeience bar of the guild allowing the Guildmaster to gain access to all the things previously mentioned. Here's how it works:

    1 player loots 20 gold, the guild perk procs by creating an extra 5% 1 gold and this extra gold is deposited automatically on the guild bank or vault. Now the bank/vault has an additional 1 gold for guild uses.

    The problem is only a few chosen Guildmembers can use that currency for what they want, helping the guild, professions, repairs for everyone, etc.

    But here is what they do, recruit as many people as they can regardless of level and overtime as long as they're in the guild the vault/bank will receive the profit.

    What really happens:
    Guilds of over 500+ members are at the max level of guild experience and therefore automatically offer their guildmembers bonuses that help greatly with their character creation and not having these bonuses takes a toll on the player, because most guilds don't have access to these benefits unless they've been formed for a long period of time.

    Here is what a Guildmaster would receive from 500 players if they looted 1,000 currency in a week each.

    500 guild members * 1000 currency = 500,000 currency * 5% extra currency generated for vault
    25,000 a week
    Now multiply this by 3 guilds you have like this
    75,000 a week
    Now multiply this for 4 weeks that form month
    300,000 currency by doing nothing, not even logged on

    This is with small numbers. But players noticed this and they also joined the party and as result they purposely lie to their members to keep them as long as possible and keep generating currency. It got to the point of purposely failing raids and dungeons so people stayed in the guild longer.

    Sadly this is the experience of a starting zone:

    Look at how many invites he gets.


    Now you understand why. In WILDSTAR currency is even more important. In my opinion this perk should be removed.

    I'll make it worse tho and I just need 1 word we are familiar with....C.R.E.E.D
    And do you really think players won't tax and use other people when you can buy game time with ingame currency. If any they already know how to do it if they did it in WoW.
  2. silvershadez

    silvershadez Cupcake

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    If your guild has an inconvenient tax system and / or corrupted guild leaders, you are free to leave that guild. I don't see why a whole game will fail because of this...
  3. Vhailor

    Vhailor New Cupcake

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    By your logic humanity will fail as well.
    Regardless of corruption, personal greed and gain of individuals there are and will be good people living on this world and on Nexus making life on both planets an experience to be had.
    Kaaous, Hestia, Ianpact and 1 other person like this.
  4. Darkace

    Darkace Cupcake

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    I agree. Well said.
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  5. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    This thread was doomed to fail, you know why?

    We've had so many peeps come in and say that WS will fail if they don't change *insert random feature*.
    As soon as people start with ''WildStar will fail because of.....'' we just know it's attention seeking as you will never get good ''feedback'' on the thread.

    And here is the second mistake you made by creating this thread:
    Since you are only open to ''idea's'' here are two: DO NOT begin with saying a whole game would fail if they don't change a certain single feature of the game.
    And don't go saying what you don't want to see in the comments about your thread.
  6. Syn

    Syn Cupcake

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    The Prophet Hath Spoken!
    [​IMG]
  7. RavenWind

    RavenWind Well-Known Cupcake

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    [​IMG]
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  8. gabers1

    gabers1 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I am a bit confused. I do not see the guild permission feature any different than a couple other MMOs where the GM/GL is able to set individual permissions from view only to full access. Is your issue more that the GM/GL has the ability to turn on the 5% tax?

    If this is the case, I have a quick question as I am not in beta and do not know how this works and the description can be interpreted two ways.



    If the GM/GL decides to utilize the guild tax option, are contributions optional for each player? The way the description reads, I know accessing the feature is optional for the GM/GL but it may also be optional for each guild member with a simple yes/no setting?

    You mention another mmo that has a perk where once activated, an ‘additional’ amount of loot is generated for each kill and deposited in the guild bank. Do we know for certain that this is not the case in this (WS) situation?

    I too played that mmo you mention in your post and belonged to a small guild. I never saw an issue with the guild perks even though we earned them at a much slower rate than other larger guilds. We never had an issue with our raiding group progressing at a fast level nor did we see an issue in pvp. I think WS’s guild perks actually benefit people like me that like smaller guilds whereas games like Wow and ffxiv promote larger guilds. I like the idea that I can gain influence by simply grouping with another member. Even though my preference has always been (and will always be) small guilds, I never had an issue finding one or two guildies to play with so I am looking forward to WS’s guild benefits structuring.
    Inukeu likes this.
  9. Sai Ree

    Sai Ree New Cupcake

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    You must have gotten a trauma somewhere in some game, i can't explain this otherwise.
    Settra likes this.
  10. Quietus

    Quietus Cupcake

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    What popped into my mind as soon as I saw the thread title:

    DOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

    Come to think of it, I'm actually surprised I haven't seen more threads like this one. This forum appears to have an unusually small population of doomsayers.
    Kataryna likes this.
  11. Bisqquit

    Bisqquit "That" Cupcake

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    Another sensationalist shock headline fronting an overly long misguided post, focusing on an administrational minutiae of the game.

    "Wildstar will fail if every guild is a casual 1000+ member free-for-all and the Guild Master is a money grabbing son of a gun" - would apply much better to your post but then it wouldn't get the same amount of views would it?
    Vusion, Zeebo and Kataryna like this.
  12. calebrus

    calebrus Cupcake-About-Town

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    I have two things to address withg regard to your DoOoOoOooOooooooMMM! post.

    1) You've onviously read Guilding the Space-Lily, because you reference it. Did you read to the bottom? Your 500 player guild, as an example, directly contrdicts this:
    "As you can see, a small guild that plays together will be able to accomplish infinitely more than a large guild which spams trade chat to invite their members but never groups up to play through the game. We're really excited about guilds being a driving force for being social in WildStar, while we let Circles take the reins when it comes to smaller social circles and hanging out with your various groups of friends."
    Any guild with 500 members is theoretically going to be worse off than a good group of twenty to fifty friends.

    2) Why on Nexus would you stay in a guild with leadership that you don't trust? If you think the leader and/or officers would do something like what you suggest, just find a guild with a better quality of person(s) at the helm.

    Your DOOM! post is now irrelevant.
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  13. Cogburn

    Cogburn Cupcake-About-Town

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    There's already a feature built in to deal with this problem. Just right click on your name in the guild roster and hit "Leave Guild". Ta daaaa!
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  14. Dirty Outlaw

    Dirty Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    You know whats funny. The post isn't worth much to discuss but the video content is. He is using the video to show on how many leveling guilds want to make profit from you but the video is talking about how dumb and easy content is which is a far more important issue.
    Kataryna likes this.
  15. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    by fail you mean it will get -your- panties in a knot?

    oh and Carbine, I think we need a prognosticator path for Nostradamus here and his friends.
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  16. Jech

    Jech New Cupcake

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    When you join a guild you know there is a GM. Unless you dont understand the structure of most MMOs and how the guild features work, you would also know the GM created and controls the guild.

    What you have to do is know about the GM and whether it is someone you trust to lead the guild your in. This concern is quite pointless. Your always free to leave a guild that you feel is poorly run.
    Kataryna likes this.
  17. calebrus

    calebrus Cupcake-About-Town

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    And as of now, the way guilds work, you need Influence to raise ranks. A newly created rank 0 guild can have 40 members. In order to get to rank 1 and raise that cap to 60 members you need to quest/play together as a quild and earn enough Influence to rank up.
    If your guild leader is such a d0uchebag to do something such as what you suggest, do you expect people to stay around long enough to get that guild to rank 6? Because that's when your example of 500 members comes into play. People won't stick around if the leader is ripping them off, and if you did then you'd be an idiot.
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  18. filanwizard

    filanwizard Cupcake-About-Town

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    Even today in WoW a guild leader could technically go on a power trip and rip people off.

    The Wildstar guild system appears to take a lot of ideas from the EVE-Online corp system.

    One thing to remember in MMOs is it is up to you the player to decide if you want to risk your time investment with a group of people. I am sure a guild scammer or two will exist out there, But do not fear it too much as I doubt you will see epic WS guild heists like we have seen epic EVE corp heists.

    If you are really worried then I would suggest seeing if you can't roll with people from a guild you are interested in, Unless a whole guild is in on scamming people you will pick up on hints of problems just by playing with them.
  19. jetah

    jetah Cupcake

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    Eve Online has a corporate Tax (same thing in WS) and it can be adjusted from 0 to 15%. It isnt that bad if you trust the heads of the guild. Eve Online used Corporations instead of Guilds but they are ideally the same thing.

    Eve had the unique situation where the corp had to pay for offices in stations. So the corp had to have funds to keep these offices. There are corp manufacturing that could be done where the fee's were deducted from the corp wallet. Eve needed the tax in certain situations.

    I'm not sure how gold will be used in WS. I'm assuming repairs but I'm not sure of anything else. Personally I'd prefer that repairing used an NPC item but tradeskills could use that item to do field repairs.
  20. CriSPeH

    CriSPeH Cupcake-About-Town

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    In one of the guilds I joined in GW2 they held a raffle where ppl paid real money for a chance to win a legendary, Twilight, I think. The end result was one of the Guild Leaders, since there was multiples with equal access to things, stole the sword and left the guild then transferred servers.

    Dick move, yes! The game wasn't affected in the slightest though, just everybody came to hate that one person.

    Guilds are just bigger groups!
    When you group up with 5 friends you don't have to worry about who the GL is and what rights they have, you can just play and have fun and trust that things will get done right.
    When you join a random group of strangers there will be the chance that something will get ninja'd!

    Choose your Guild carefully, Carbine doesn't need to babysit everyone!
    Faust.A, Livnthedream and Kataryna like this.
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