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Will the majority of my time be spent walking?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Nukingsman, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. Sevvy

    Sevvy Cupcake-About-Town

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    Trying to dissect the meaning of the phrase, and then telling me what I meant isn't going to help your argument.
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  2. Zap-Robo

    Zap-Robo Administrator • King Cupcake

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    <Admin Hat> Alright guys I've tidied up a little here in this thread, now let's drop the tangent and flamebait and get back to the topic at hand before I start throwing out individual user Warnings. Thanks! </Admin Hat>
  3. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    WoW absolutely did catch lightening in a bottle. They had a lot of factors working in their favor that we are pretty unlikely to see again.

    They released into an MMO market that was mostly untapped; a far cry from the massive over-saturation we have today. The entire concept of a "casual MMO" was new and exciting at the time, a refreshing change from the EQ and UO style; now casual has been done and overdone many times over. WoW had a substantial IP that was already very popular among the people they were designing the game for. If you want to go a step further, they released at a time when the fantasy genre as a whole was as mainstream and popular as it has ever been due to the massive success of the LoTR movies.

    You need both luck and skill. Blizzard had both. Carbine has skill, but they do not have any of those other above factors working for them.
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  4. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    Just because someone copied something, that doesn't mean they copied it well or were in a position to replicate the success of the original even if they used a similar formula. Most of the games from the big WoW-clone boom began with the premise of, "We're like WoW... but with a twist!" Almost invariably, that twist was superficial (TOR is the most glaring example)and only served to highlight the game's lack of content in the long run.

    Which, it could be argued, has a lot to do with why they failed: rather than trying to carve out their own niche in the market, they tried to copy WoW. They copied WoW poorly, didn't offer enough substantial differences in design to keep players interested, and couldn't compete with the amount of content WoW had to offer. So they failed at being different from WoW and they failed at beating WoW at its own game. Maybe if those games had tried to be more genuinely innovative, rather than trying to copy what they assumed was a foolproof formula for success and dressing it up with window features, those games would have been more successful and the market would be more diverse.

    What I'm saying is beginning to sound suspiciously like what someone else in this thread has been saying, though... hmm...

    Oh, right! It's what Sevvy has been trying to explain to you for quite some time now.
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  5. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    I would actually argue that Carbine has a number of similar factors going for it.

    The marked is now glutted with fantasy <REDACTED> and people are burning out on the old mainstay. Themeparks have become ubiquitous while sandboxes are becoming more scarce, and "action-oriented" MMOs are starting to gain traction.
  6. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Fantasy has always been more popular than sci fi (and you can easily argue that Wildstar is rather fantasy anyway) and how exactly are sadboxes getting more scarce? I mean Galaxies shutdown but it had less than 50k subs. Not exactly a huge percentage of the playerbase.
  7. WoodGoat

    WoodGoat Cupcake

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    In regards to the travel issue, TBC is a perfect benchmark for how it should be. Flying mounts available only to people at the level cap, with sufficient funds, and only allowed in the super high level zones (no cities).

    I say no cities because look at WoW for an example. In vanilla, TBC, and WotLK, flying mounts weren't allowed in the main cities (Ironforge, Orgrimmar) and as a result, people knew each other and most servers had thriving, active server communities as a result. Once Cataclysm hit and people would no longer gather in the streets of these social hubs in favor of idling 500 ft above ground, the communities faded out.

    LFD is another big problem as it made traveling around in the world almost obsolete. A player could, outside of the starting area, spend their entire leveling experience, standing in one space Qing up for dungeons. This is not an ingredient for building a community or a living world.

    To the people saying "well there would still be the option to walk there if you wanted to"; What group is going to wait around for this exhibitionist to spend 7 min running to a dungeon on a mount, or 15 min walking there when the other 4 members teleported and are ready to go?

    Convenience is not always a good thing
  8. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    In the mystical Before Time, before the great and holy light of WoW was made to shine upon the cosmos, themepark design philosophy didn't have quite the same stranglehold it has on the genre today. The fact that something so basic as player housing is a feature worth advertising about in WildStar does a lot to show just how skewed the market has become in favor of themeparks.

    I got my MMO start with Ultima Online, so... yes, by my reckoning, the genre has steadily proceeded to get more and more restrictive over the years. March of progress, whatever. I'm not crying about it. Merely observing that WildStar, a themepark game sprinkled with sandbox elements, is in a nice position to capitalize on the trend. I have some food to eat and Breaking Bad to catch up on, so I hope you can forgive me for not immediately citing a bunch of facts and sources and developer quotes. This is just one of those things that I assume is obvious to fellow genre dinosaurs.

    Regarding WildStar's sci-fi credentials... it has robots and space ships and laser weapons. There's a stat called Technology (or truncated to Tech, if they're committed to that awful new naming scheme). No, it probably doesn't qualify as hard sci-fi, it does seem to be a deliberate blend of futuristic and medieval, but it's still a step up for those of us who've grown tired of the same old fantasy formula.
  9. Ark

    Ark Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ok so - honest hat on - i have read the first page, and then skipped to here.

    Travel is a hell of a thing. Part of great mmo design is the world. The world needs to be involving, dynamic, look good, and have a sense of scale. Swtor did this is all the wrong ways, as has been mentioned, by including a HUGE amount of meaningless, uninteresting time consuming travel / load screens. GW2 for me, missed the mark by including too many instant travel points, which really ruined things.

    Getting my first mount in wow was a really cool feeling. Although over the years travel has been made easier and easier in wow, i still find it quite rewarding to mount up for the first time.

    If most of the below conditions are met, i dont mind travel in my mmo:

    • Great visuals
    • Dynamic world - things happening
    • Unique landscape per zone - not just the same thing zone after zone
    • Fun combat!
    • Good player density - Mmo. - i want to see other players while i travel.
    • Interesting and impressive landmarks - statues, massive mountains, crashed starships etc
    One of the biggest issues i have with mmos is when all the damn zones look the same. I loved going from a desert, do a lush green farmland, to a dense forrest, to a scorched mountain side. If the world is interesting and fun, i dont mind a little bit of slow travel.
  10. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I don't know how exactly travel will work in Wildstar but I do know that I will be swaggin' from here to there. Everywhere I be swaggin'.
  11. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Housing has nothing to do with themeparks. Housing going away is almost entirely due to how little it gets use. It has to be incentivized out the wazoo for it to earn its dev money. Its similar reasoning as to why class quests have went the way of the dodo. Even then, you would be wrong. There is a reason why UO constantly had to input restrictions and get further and further away from the world sim it was originally envisioned as. On top of which, while there is a playerbase for it, those who want an "immersive world" experience are few and far between. Far too many simply outgrow virtual worlds, and sorry to say, the majority of the playerbase is in its late 20's/early 30's. Long past where they will use a virtual world as a virtual world.

    Possibly. With how market saturation has occured too many are desperately trying to carve out a niche and still move forward. I feel this game has a lot of potential, and even a little sand is good, but I do not foresee full blown sandboxes being any more popular now then they were in the past. Sandboxes have always been in the minority. Even in the time of UO. AC, AO, EQ etc etc all had it beat. UO may have been first, but it was never best.

    Wildstar is Star Wars style scifi. Meaning it has a lot more in common with its parent genre (fantasy) than actual scifi. It takes more than space ships and random tech to be scifi. Otherwise Steampunk is no longer its own genre. At best this is just fantasy reskinned. If you really want to consider that a step up, feel free, but the same tropes will still all be there. At its heart it appears no different.
  12. Teehk

    Teehk Cupcake-About-Town

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    I guess you could always "Role Around" :p
  13. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    That's a lot of intelligent analysis, but none of it has anything to do with what I said. My point was that WildStar is at least somewhat heterogenous in a largely homogenous genre, and that I think that will work in its favor. The game might not have ALL of the favorable factors WoW had, but it's got a few. The ones I pointed out are just what came to mind first.
  14. FlamingRuby

    FlamingRuby Cupcake-About-Town

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    Recently i have started playing yet again Rift.
    I have to say that i really love that sometimes i have to walk with my mount for a distance of 10-15 mins.
    They have 2-3 portals per zone and its all fine.After that you just have to walk.Interact with the whole world.
    But i find this discussion a bit pointless because if they add flying mounts there will be NO problem in travelling and also there will be no point to explore game.Cause you will have everything easily.Even if it is on Cap level.
    Mounts are more than enough and hope Carbine will NEVER introduce flying ones.They want World PvP everywhere right?This will help also

    As for LFD tool i am against but if dungeons provide some challenge like Rift and are not brainless facerolls like World of Warcraft i am all fine!At least please dont implement LFR and give Free epics from them like WoW.
  15. Sonntam

    Sonntam Cupcake-About-Town

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    Carbine already confirmed there will be flying mounts at launch.

    http://www.mmo-game.eu/wildstar-q-and-a-session-with-jeremy-gaffney/

    I am not too thrilled about it either, since as a big time explorer I feel that flying trivialises exploring and takes away the challenge from it (and with the challenge a good chunk of the fun too).

    Hopefully flying will come with a lot restrictions. Hundreds of them.
  16. FlamingRuby

    FlamingRuby Cupcake-About-Town

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    Starting to lose interest for the game.Flying mounts,LFD...Not like...
    But i will not make my final decision until i play the game for like 1-2 weeks.

    After that i will prolly decide if i need to stay or wait yet again an other game.....
  17. Sapien

    Sapien Cupcake-About-Town

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    I been playing on a wow vanilla server for about a week now and i can say to thouse that think that old memories sounds better then they are, you guys have wrong (atleast in my case) ..It was so refreshing to acctually die in the first cave at the orc starting zone at lvl4 :) (i did even run out of mana long before the mob was dead :) ) ...Anyway i really hope that Carbine is goin as "hardcore" as they saying with their gameplay - Will be nice to get some challenges again while lvling up in a MMO. And as i said before, i hope they dont ruin it with to much instant travels from here to everywhere either.
  18. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Sonntam, i hope you do know that you've posted an interview from 2012?

    They have stated that they are looking into flying mount again (somewhere in 2013).
    And thus flying mounts are not 100% confirmed (they've come back on that).
    Yes they probably put them in, but they also said they are looking into ''restrictions'' for flying.

    So i should take that interview with a pinch of salt if i were you, for it's too old to hold the 100% truth.
  19. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Your point is false simply because the genre is not homogenous. If you want to boil down the existing market to the point that they are homogenous then you may aswell be saying that anything that competes in the same category is the same category is homogenous. There are very real differences between every game on the market right now. None of them may be what you are looking for, but there is a great deal of variety. I mean even in the sandpark category you have things like Archage to directly compare to.
  20. FlamingRuby

    FlamingRuby Cupcake-About-Town

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    To be honest even with restrictions flying mounts are not appealing to me.
    But as i said before i am not going to judge the game before i put my hands on it for sometime.
    If the indeed going to implement flying mounts and they are not going to have any impact in exploration/zones activity/World PvP i am fine.
    If Flying mounts are more of a convenience tool rather than a tool like in WoW i am really fine!

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