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Will Wildstar have Raids like in WOW?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by thomas gaucher, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. thomas gaucher

    thomas gaucher New Cupcake

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    Hi, I have been playing WOW for a long time, I never had more fun in a game than I did in WOW. Especially in raids. I would like to know more about raids in Wildstar. Will it be 5,10,25 or 40 mans? Will there be healers, tanks and dps like it did in WOW? Will the raids will have a loot systems like it did in WOW?

    thank for helping me know more about this very interesting game.:D
  2. Zap-Robo

    Zap-Robo Administrator • King Cupcake

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    Will it be 5,10,25 or 40 mans?
    40 mans have been hinted at. No details otherwise.

    Will there be healers, tanks and dps like it did in WOW?
    Yes. "Holy" Trinity gameplay is confirmed.

    Will the raids will have a loot systems like it did in WOW?
    This has been implied. However, raid loot will require assistance from crafters and maybe even PvP rewards to become the best gear in the game.

    Have a read around the various news articles and watch the videos in the Media library to learn more!
  3. Punx

    Punx Cupcake

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    Basically what Zap said, as much as they are handing out goodies so far I would fully imagine all the raid sizes you mentioned.
  4. Nectavian

    Nectavian New Cupcake

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    I hope not exclusively. I know this is an MMO and all, but I got enough of 40-man with WoW. At that size, you inevitably end up with 20 hardcore, 10 casual, and 10 leech/slackers. The only time this wasn't true was for the very large (hundreds of players) "community" guilds, where they could weed out the bad without risking their ability to gather 40 people at one time consistently.

    So requiring 40-men means you give the player a hard choice:
    1) Join a community guild, where you know virtually no one, but can play the game's content...if you can prove yourself one day.
    2) Join a tighter group, where you can get to know and enjoy playing with everyone, but have to deal with the resulting "filler" members required to make your quota of 40 each week.

    I know this isn't in stone yet, but I'd much rather see mechanic-adjusting variable sizes or at least a 10/40 option.
  5. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    I find it interesting that so many people had a "bad" experience with large guilds in WoW. When I played, I was raiding with them and knew 90% or so of the raiders enough to be able to have conversations with them in guild chat about their lives. For the shy, I can see it being a problem... But why play an MMO then?
  6. Nectavian

    Nectavian New Cupcake

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    I assume you only glossed over the post? I'm not shy, but I do know the difference between a friend and an acquaintance. MMO is the definition of the world and community (economics, crafting, chat, etc), not the requirement for your guild.

    With hundreds of people in your guild, if you truly enjoyed playing with each-and-every one of them, then you are rare. Often with those numbers, you will find some that you only play with because they happen to be guildies, and others because you really and truly enjoy to. With several dozen, there's a good chance they have something in common (similar age, have kids, RL interests, etc), and can enjoy more than just the game...you can enjoy the conversation/jokes/attitude during the game. If you have never had this, then you simply don't know what you're missing, and can't really make claims against it.
  7. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    I did not gloss over your post, I just wanted to address my experience with your first point.

    Sure, I agree that some of my guildies were just acquaintances, but I have a decent amount of them that I still talk to today. No, I didn't enjoy playing with each and every single raider we had, but I still knew them. I also don't enjoy everyone I work with, and I don't get along with my brothers and sisters all the time, I don't see that as an argument for downsizing or quitting my job.

    I can't figure out now if you're arguing for or against having a big guild. The statements you made here sound like you're for having a big guild because there's a higher chance of finding someone that you "have something in common (similar age, have kids, RL interests, etc)..."

    Again, I don't know what your experience with raiding guilds was, I just find it interesting that so many people did NOT have what I had. A guild of 50+ people who enjoyed spending evenings raiding together and days hanging out. I didn't realize that others didn't have this experience. I know that I made sure to get to know everyone I could by chatting with them in guild chat or through tells.

    I view a guild, when not raiding, as a huge hang out time doing something we all enjoy. I don't mind having to mill around and chat with 50+ people when we're not doing business. I put myself out there though, making sure to include guildies that I didn't know so that I could get to know them better. It's about what you put into the game and that's why I made the shy comment.

    Again, I am not arguing that we have to have 40 man raids, I'm just pointing out that big guilds can be a huge blessing depending on each person's attitude. And I thoroughly enjoyed the experience I had in my big guild, and still hang out with people I never would have met otherwise.
  8. Nectavian

    Nectavian New Cupcake

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    Agreed, and I didn't argue against 40-man raids, only against them being the only option (hence the "exclusively"). Not everyone has a circle of close friends as enormous as you do.

    How you avoided having filler/slacker members in your WoW 40-mans is beyond me (it was a joke-level known phenomenon), but I know it happens -- that's why there are world-famous guilds. It's basically the difference between going to a concert to enjoy your weekend and having a poker night...both are very valid in an MMO setting.
  9. Arne Art

    Arne Art New Cupcake

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    I feel a 20 man raid is a comfortable size. It also depends on the playerbase of the game. If a server is at full capacity with 80% active players its no problem, but half load servers with half of the population casual questers it will be near impossible to raid 40 on solid intervals.
  10. Phiqu

    Phiqu Cupcake-About-Town

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    In the worst case scenario would that mean: (raid system adjustments>) server merge > raid system adjustments.
  11. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    I want the option between larger raids and smaller ones....

    Personally I like smaller raids and I agree with Nectavian, large raids require large guilds. In large guilds it's a lot harder to really get to know folks. In worst case scenarios they tend to cater to only a fraction of the members and everyone else gets the leftovers.

    So 40 mans? Not for me, but as long as I can go do my 10 mans to each his own.
  12. WildZhen

    WildZhen Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well I used to do 40 man back in the days, what I find amusing is that everyone seems to have this "It was awesome" feelin when it comes to 40 man, Well I don't, 40 man was nice once every month when everyone was either on drug (only reason we were doing alright imo lol) or glad life was treating them well. You could see the result, 40 people doing what they had to do. Now if you take the state of Wow right now and say let's do a new raid 40, boy good luck with that; so I do not wish to have a 40man raid in WS because it is just full of headaches and not that much interesting imo. Now 25m why not, my thinking is 20 man is about the right size (for big raids) why should we have more than that. Bottom line Ulduar was one of the best raid I have done in wow and it was not 40m as you all know it, so size of the raid doesn't beat quality content of the actual raid imo.

    /love all

    PS: need more NEWS WS
  13. Mosene

    Mosene Cupcake

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    Large 40 man+ raids are gone from the MMO genre forever trust me, that is an old concept that started with EQ and died with WoW, no half brained player would ever want to play that mess again, it was bad, it was a grind and I hope it stays burried forever.Less player, more skill pls, I rather play with a few skilled people than spending 90% of the raid spotting slackers.
  14. Phiqu

    Phiqu Cupcake-About-Town

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    For me it sounds like between 20 and 40 man raid content.
  15. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    I never liked 40 man. My guilds at the time were very small, around 10-12 people or so, and getting into a 40 man raid was disorganized at best. It took forever to get started, forever to set the ground rules, etc. 20 man is the most I would want to see and 10 would be perfect to me. Of course, this is just my opinion.

    Now, I wouldn't mind 40 man or more if it was an open raid environment where a bunch of people could just jump in and help take down a threat, along the lines of what GW2 said they were doing (I never played GW2 so just going by what was in blogs, etc.). Something that has to be organized though, no thanks, not anymore.
  16. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree with the folks here that believe that there will be larger raids. The quotes that Phiqu posted are very telling. I do however believe that smaller raids will be included as well.

    The key word here is some.... To me this is the most telling of all. To me it says there will be small and large raids sizes. I will be happy to see both even if I don't engage in larger raids. The different size raids will attract a wider range of players... It's a win win.

    BlackWolf brought up an interesting point about larger vs smaller raids in another thread. He stated that he believed larger raids should have a higher level of loot. I thought that gear should be normalized no matter the size of the raid.

    I disagreed at first, I think that 10 mans require just as much skill (if not more) than the larger raids. His counter was that to gather enough folks together for the larger raids it was important to incentivize them. He gave the example of how the 25 man's in WoW died after they normalized the gear. I had to agree with him, they did.

    Bottom line for me is it is harder to plan and coordinate a large raid even if the skill set required to complete them isn't higher than the smaller ones.

    I thought it was an interesting (sub) topic for this thread...

    What do you guys think? Are there better ways to make sure that peeps have the motivation to organize for the bigger raids?
  17. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Doing 40 men raids takes more of everything. It asks more of the guild leader and his or her officers, it asks more of the raid leader. To get 40 men to perform optimally just takes more effort then, for example, 10 men. This is just a fact. Everyone who have been leading or still leads a guild knows this. I think the hardcore raiders would go for the 40 men raids for sure. The more casual would go for the 10 men probably, because it is just easier to get it work or they can tag along a larger guild and enjoy the 40 men content.

    Some argue that in 10 men the chance of error is higher then in larger raid sizes. I agree with that, but it is also easier to get them on the same line as the others. To make 40 men move is a lot lot harder then only 10. So I have the opinion that the larger men raids are just harder to be successful at. You just have to look at WoW's history and you know it. More effort should reward better loot. Don't disappoint me on this Carbine. Give the people who are better at the game their rewards. They earn it. You don't get anything for free. That is where Blizzard did go wrong. Giving everyone easy epics.

    We had a discussion before about what kind of player should be 'allowed' to raid or not. I probably shouldn't go there again, but I do it anyway. Like Carbine said, the Elder game will be for the more hardcore players.
    I'm sure Carbine will have other things to do for the more casual player that a hardcore player don't want to do. Pet Battles anyone?

    I will repeat myself: You don't have to play 100% of a game to have fun! An example: Do you do PvP if you don't like it? Probably not. Are you still having fun doing PvE content? Good chance you have. Are you doing 100% of the content in the game? No, you aren't.

    Never do anything you don't like to do. This not only applies to a game, but to real life as well. (Red.: Black Wolf wisdom, sorry to bother you with that.) If there is nothing in a game that you like or have time for, it is just not the game for you. Move on, there are other games out there that probably suit your play style more. You probably enjoy those even more as well. Maybe mmorpg's arent just for you. Like Farmville isn't for me.

    To get back to Chrilins question: It depends on what type of player you are I think. It all depends on what motivates you to play the game in the first place. Are you going for the best of the best loot? Or for the thrill of the kill? Or are you just a social gamer that loves to hang out a few hours a week while trying to kill a boss? Maybe even all three at once.

    Loot doesn't motivate me. Might be strange to say after my opinion about 40 men should have better loot, but that's because my reason to raid is foremost the thrill of figuring out the tactics, getting everyone on the same path, the execution of the fight and finally the kill of that boss where you spends weeks on.
    So what will motivate me? Hard fights that takes a long time to get right. Not some easy fight, that can be completed after a couple of tries. That is no challenge and just demotivates me. The more difficult the challenge, the more joy and satisfaction I get out of it.
    The (better) loot is just a bonus and reward that makes my character stronger and hopefully look cooler as well. Doesn't mean I don't want to get it. Of course I do, I like to get rewarded for something I did. Who doesn't?
    Mosene and starspun like this.
  18. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree with almost everything here. The exception being that 10 man raids are casual. As a guild we raided 10 mans 4-5 hours a night 2-3 nights a week. I'm not sure of what other folks definition of casual is, but for me this is not it.

    One more thing... All of the new raids in WoW that use the raid finder are 25 mans. They do not require the same amount of skill or coordination as the 10 mans. In all fairness though, they cannot be compared to the old guard 25-40 mans of the past. They are designed to be easier so peeps can pug them.

    This imo is where a lot of the newer mmo's have gone wrong and is a contributing factor to their less than stellar sub numbers. Less time put into your toon results in less commitment to the game.

    God... Let's hope there is more than that lol. :)

    Every group I have ever played with is a mixture of all three of these types of players...

    I repose my question. Is there something that Carbine (other than loot differences) can do to make sure that both types of players large/small raiders are represented in a fair and balanced manner without favoring one over the other?
  19. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    Sorry, but I never said 10 men are casual. I said the casual would probably go for the 10 men. Small difference. :)

    You don't make it any easier don't you! :p
  20. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Fair enough Sir. :up:

    lol.... My feeling is there will be both smaller and larger raids in W*, so it's an interesting topic for me.:geek:
    Let's hope that Carbine has been watching this particular issue unfold in other mmo's and is addressing it.

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