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Will WildStar support new Steam controller?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Gronky, Sep 27, 2013.

  1. dizko

    dizko Cupcake-About-Town

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    When you run a wine emulator or something to run DirectX on Linux, sure games run poorly. When you run a Linux compatible game with OpenGL games run just fine on Linux. The problem isn't performance the problem is Devs support Linux and OpenGL. The good news is engines like Unreal support both and quite a lot of games run on Unreal. It only takes a few leaders to get the rest to follow. Building games for Linux isn't that hard thanks to engines like Unreal who do all the heavy lifting for developers. It really comes down to the market not demanding it, hopefully SteamOS changes that.

    The other thing to consider is that SteamOS isn't a full Linux distro, it's a watered down version of Linux specifically designed to run games. Think of Android OS which is the same kind of thing only designs specifically to run on phones.
  2. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    The issue isn't strictly that the controller is the problem. The problem is, once you begin adapting the game for things like controllers, you have to then take into account things that can and cannot be done with that system.

    In order to balance the game to make it "fair" for those players, you then need to support whatever software and hardware is used for the controller (possibly Steam OS in this case). Take into account where people use controllers (usually the living room or a group area) and create a UI for something that has no "pointer."

    It's not about hating on controllers necessarily, it's adapting the game to play equally well with a controller as it can be played with a keyboard and mouse. Also, the fact that the controller doesn't really net you anything you can't get from a keyboard and mouse anyway. The keyboard and mouse is the most readily available peripheral for computing needs, therefore the obvious choice for the "standard" is the keyboard and mouse when developing. If you make it so that it also "supports" controllers, you don't get a better game experience from using a controller, and the person who chooses to use a controller as opposed to a keyboard/mouse is consciously making the decision to play the game in a less effective manner.

    Additionally, Wildstar has more than full support for addons, and UI is usually a huge part of gameplay for MMORPG. Making a UI which can be easily customizable and easily integrate addons is even harder if you're claiming to "support" controllers. Controllers are simply worse for UI customization.

    Last promoting bad gameplay habits among players in your game means you'll have bad players in your game. This annoys the good players (generally) and is bad for the community (again generally). If you give a legitimate option to play with a controller, that's promoting a poor gaming decision for a player. On the other hand, if you make it so the player themselves has to set up the controller to work for the game, the player then has to be competent enough to be able to work around the UI customization and addon things, and will have solutions themselves, instead of expecting Carbine to produce solutions for the inferior system for this task.

    So, Carbine should not officially support controllers unless they can actually produce a comparable gameplay experience for both keyboard/mouse and controllers without sacrificing features which solely benefit one or the other.

    TLDR; An equally enjoyable experience cannot be made for both keyboard/mouse and controller. If you have to officially support only one, it's better to stick with keyboard/mouse for WS's current commitments.
  3. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Well-Known Cupcake

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    Another reason why controllers shouldn't be supported is because people will have a limited amount of abilities they can use and using menus would be a pain in the butt.

    I don't want to be penalized by having a crappy UI and even less abilities on the screen because of console baddies.

    Take Diablo III for example. It was built with a console version in mind and PC users ended up with abilities tied to 1-4 and the left/right mouse buttons. Try that with an MMORPG that has more depth and takes more skill and PC players won't play your game.
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  4. Arawulf

    Arawulf Owner of WildStarFans.net

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    While I don't expect gamepads to become the norm for MMO control, I'm sure people will experiment. As previously mentioned, as long as the controller will support WildStar, I'm sure people will try it out. Nothing wrong with finding new and interesting ways to play, although I can't see myself using anything but mouse and keyboard.
  5. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    I hope Carbine will at least do good mouse+keyboard support and UI, let alone controllers. If everything goes well for WS after launch and there is a demand for support for some advanced controllers like steam one, then they may just add it or somebody else may. I'd rather have them work on more content/zones as I've realised it's a bigger problem, IMO.
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  6. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Let's just stop.
    Please.

    Do you play with 1 hand while you're using mouse and keyboard?
    NO!? Omg! So you have to move your hands off of another device (Controller/Mouse) to type for example.

    Stop it.

    Just...Stop. If people like controller support and Carbine thinks it's cool, they'll implement it. If not, get joy2key, xpadder, whatever.

    I personally think M&K will be better, too but I'll try it out if it has controller support.

    And even if it had it, why are you so raging about it? YOU don't have to play with it...Jesus, people can rant about the darndest things. This doesn't even take a big amount of ressources to use - It's programming the same stuff and mapping it to analogue sticks, that's it.

    They won't cancel content because they need the ressources for that.

    My last comment in this thread AKA
    TL;DR:
    It won't hurt you if it is in. Now stop complaining about 100% optional stuff that doesn't bother you at all thanks bye.
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  7. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Well-Known Cupcake

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    I am not raging about it but I think development time should be spent on more important things.

    The problem is not enough buttons to map to a controller, difficulty using menus and other UI elements.

    Carbine is all about the hardcore players anyway, so I doubt they will offer controller support and waste time on simplified controls and UI elements.
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  8. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    It does hurt the computer player though, because generally when a game "supports" the controller option, they have to design the game with that in mind. This means that they take away things that would be completely normal for a keyboard/mouse user, but hard or a lesser experience for the controller based user. You can't say it has "no effect" on the rest of the population in the game.

    Otherwise if Carbine doesn't make the gameplay experience close to "equivalent" with either peripheral, then they'll get a bad name from the controller based crowd, which only hurts them. This is specifically speaking about how the ui customization functions and the addon support is handled.

    The other thing is your gameplay experience could be effected by someone who chooses to just plug in a controller and use it. This is because they could manage to get into your dungeon part or group and drag the group down, and you have no real common way to interact with them. This isn't to say controller to controller can't interact or keyboard to keyboard can't interact, it's saying that the controller to keyboard interaction is probably hindered. This is whether or not an in game voice chat system is put in place, as many users opt to not use it even if it's in place.

    So, what happens is, if one of the players is worse, and the other tries to tell them they're doing something wrong, only to get no response, it's seen as rude and hurts the community. It'd be like the equivalent of a blind person trying to talk to a deaf person. It simply wouldn't work out, without expectations of communication systems between the specific parties. It's the same problem when a US player who only speaks english has a problem with a Latin American player who only speaks spanish, there's basically no way to bridge the communication gap.

    It may very well be that the controller plays every bit as well as the keyboard/mouse user on the standard UI, but there's no way the controller will ever have as much control over their ui or addon usage.

    So, it's very very bad for Carbine to officially support the controllers. It's not bad for players to get the controller to work for WS, as they will have specific ways they're getting around said barriers.

    In addition, there's absolutely nothing missed from using a keyboard/mouse except you can't play in your living room, but honestly, it's an MMORPG, which you're interacting with people online, and wouldn't need a public area to play it. You could just as easily make your computer room as comfortable as your living room if that's the issue.

    TLDR; Keyboard/mouse peripherals aren't broken, does the Steam controller improve upon their potentials in ANY way? I submit they do not.
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  9. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Yes, this. I'm sure they'll support all sorts of mouse+keyboard peripherals, additionally they're superbly supporting addons so I'd imagine there will be an addon which will fully integrate the steam controller at some point. It's completely understandable for Carbine to not support the controller, as there's giant glaring issues with UI customization and UI interaction. If you've ever played DCUO on a keyboard/mouse setup you'll immediately realize it's designed with a controller in mind and feels "limiting" to a keyboard/mouse user.
  10. Methios

    Methios Cupcake

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  11. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Oh, ok, so if the Controller function is good, M&K players are having a bad time, and if it isn't good, Controller players will hate Carbine.

    Cool.

    How about...Both? Idk. People play FFXIV with a ps3 controller (How? Don't ask me.) and are perfecty fine. And they have a feeeew more keys to press there.
    As in...dozens.

    Wildstar on the other hand doesn't. Also "I'd rather have dev time spent on something else".
    It's still not like this eats 1384532 hours of time or ressources, it's button mapping for gods sake.

    Not let this topic die. Please. Obviously controller players are bad and PC gamers NEED M&K to feel superior, Masterracing and in general YOU are better the end.

    Equality? Naah man, that's gay huehuehuehue.
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  12. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    So, with FFXIV, from what I've heard the combat's fairly simple, and I'm betting communication in the game isn't as necessary for the majority of the content. You completely ignored the common ways that each peripheral user prefers to communicate.

    Second, FFXIV is an old old OLD IP, which means that players will play it, regardless of the gameplay experience. It's still in its first month or so, and the majority of the players haven't even been able to play the game. So, if that's the case, and players still want to play, they really won't notice/care about a crappy gameplay experience. So, that's kinda a bad example.

    You have to remember WS is a brand new IP, and it's Carbine's first game ever. You don't want to start making enemies because you decided to try to officially support a game controller THAT'S NOT EVEN OUT YET! That's a huge risk for no reward. What Carbine should do INSTEAD is unofficially develop controls which will make the steam controller usable, and then let the community make addons which will connect it to the game.

    This in turn lets players use their steam controller that they decided was better than the traditional M&K for whatever reason (which it's not) and Carbine isn't held accountable if the game experience is sub-par.

    TLDR: I still have yet to see a compelling argument as to why this (or any) controller is so great and why a game controller beats out a mouse and keyboard.
  13. Usk

    Usk New Cupcake

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    I prefer Mouse and Keyboard instead of controllers, that's why I've always played PC games instead of console games.

    Anyway im pretty sure there will be ways to adapt Wildstar for this new Steam Controller. I think it wont be developed by Carbine but since all this comes from Opensource devs, with the time someone will find the way to do it.
    The question would be: Is it viable to play Wildstar with controllers? I dont think so.
  14. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Because you're obviously a fact-driven robot.
    Maybe you ARE a mechari, in which case I am terribly sorry for your loss of human capabilites - which brings me to my point:

    Preferences.

    I've brought it up, what, 1384123 times already? Yeah, in an exaggerated matter round about that.

    There's people who prefer to play FPS games with a controller despite the Mouse being way more accurate. Why? BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT.

    If you can't understand that, then go back to an engineer and get yourself repaired, thanks alot.

    Also: I'm done with this thread. Some people obviously don't know what a preference is. Or an opinion.

    I'm mature enough to see that you clearly are not. (I've even said that I think it'd be nice, but not neccessary since there's joy2key, Xpadder etc. but reading's obviously uncool, too. Now leave me alone, you're embaressing yourselves. Seriously.)
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  15. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    So, why do people with "preferences" care if the game's officially supported or not? As long as they can use their controller won't they be happy if they "prefer" it? Carbine's official support is a business strategy, and the fact that they fully support addons means that they indirectly support the controller. But from a business standpoint, the controller is only a risk with no real reward. At the moment it has 0 market share, being that no one owns one, so 0 extra players can play the game due to development being put into the game.

    You seem to not understand basic logical practices. So, you can "prefer" to do things the wrong way, but I think it's a bad business move to officially support the controller until a suitable UI and other solutions to the problems brought up have been implemented. People like chocolate too, doesn't mean you should give it to them all the time.
  16. teh_ninjaneer

    teh_ninjaneer Cupcake-About-Town

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    Malorak already said it, but it's obvious you will never find this compelling argument because you're not willing to see it. Your mind is set and you have no desire to discuss the matter with an open mind.

    I usually play games with a mouse. I've probably been playing computer games with a mouse as long or longer than you've been alive. But Final Fantasy 14 gave me the option to play an MMO with a 360 gamepad. I tried it. I enjoyed it. I feel like I play the game just as well as the mouse users.

    For co-op shooter games on the PC, such as Borderlands 2 and Payday 2, I've started trying out the gamepad as well. I enjoy it. My young son can sit in my lap and watch me play. He can hit the jump button and it makes him laugh.

    If I were trying to play competitively in a shooter I would pick up my mouse because I know I lose aim assist when playing against other players. But for co-op play I think the gamepad is actually fun.

    Stop trying to be the best and just try to enjoy something for once. You might learn to like other things. At the least you shouldn't hate on others for what they do like.

    The troll level on these boards has shot up immensely in the past couple of months.
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  17. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    LOL, Blind, buddy, you got diarrhea of the fingers again don't ya ;). Writing the annoyingly long posts that say nothing or give any factual data, just inane opinions. Thanks for the TLDR, that's new!

    No one claimed KBM peripherals broken. Get this, some people prefer controllers/gamepads, some will argue they are better with them. Hell, I'd argue and I've been a KBM player for far to many years. I used a gamepad for GW2 and was much better at combat than with a KBM. There is NOT a better way to move in an action game than with a controller. The only way KBM is better is if you can never adjust or get comfortable with a controller.

    But, you and others need to stop with statements that a controller player can't function in the game appropriately. A bad player is a bad player and I would venture to say that those who play with a controller aren't doing it to be bad, their doing it to be better. You can get in a dungeon with a bad KBM player and it ruin your personal experience. Don't act like all controller players are bad. I'd argue the complete opposite.

    Okay so you are truly bored and just argumentative, right? I mean that can be the only reason for this post and this statement. You obviously haven't played and you go off on a tangent about player experience. Seriously?

    You can use both controller and KBM and I'd argue, since I'm playing and have tried both, that KBM is better in this game because it doesn't have action combat. It is a true turn based, GCD, occasional telegraph to dodge game.

    Anywho I'm treading into your rambling territory now :) so I'll stop.

    TLDR: Stop trolling people. The Steam controller looks bad ass and controller players are not teh debil!

    TLDR2: yes I'm fully aware my post is full of opinion and conjecture, just like the posts I'm railing against.
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  18. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    My whole argument has been about player experience the whole time. Supporting controllers isn't about what functions better, it's that the two types of control peripherals don't interact well in the same system. They use inherently different ways of communication and extremely different UI's to feel fully functional.

    Not saying the controller players are the devil (anymore) it's the fact that getting the two to interface well in the same game is time consuming, difficult, and usually doesn't work out so well. This means that Carbine gets a bad rep for putting out a sub-par experience, because they wanted to put in official support.

    In fact I've said they should develop the support for the controller and unofficially support it, so that the community can fill in the gaps. This way they can distance themselves from official technical issues, and players experience issues. They should allow a way for players to use whatever peripherals they want, but still say officially that they only support the keyboard/mouse.
  19. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    I get the preference thing, but what if there were an addon that allowed you to play the game with a controller? I just don't see a reason Carbine needs to slap a branding label on their game that they "officially and fully support the Steam Controller." The fact that Carbine has such a vast support system for addons means the community can almost virtually do ANYTHING with the game that they want. This would include third party support of a game controller.

    Why is that a problem? Why do YOU need Carbine to say "Yes, we think you should try our game with this controller." If the options are available, won't you try them anyway?
  20. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    You should of said this from the beginning, all the other nonsense wasn't needed. All the other stuff seemed like an attack on using a controller and made you sound like a prick.

    Personally I don't know the technical side of the issue. I know I used an app to help configure the controller to my needs in GW2 and it worked great. FFXIV works great with both and was designed for both. I think the KBM is better but others might not.

    Could you or someone in agreement with you list the technical reasons or link to them. Otherwise it's just conjecture.
    teh_ninjaneer likes this.

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