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World PvP?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by hugestballusmanus, May 11, 2013.

  1. hugestballusmanus

    hugestballusmanus New Cupcake

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    Okay, before I start, I should say I've been looking into this game recently and I haven't read much of this forum. So I don't know if this has been talked about a lot but I think this is important enough to open discussion.

    Now, I've been looking into this game since I heard about it being a large open world, now this opened the possibility of World PvP. I looked it up and it was since then confirmed, I was pleasantly surprised since SOME of my fondest memories of MMO's come from world PvP. Then I heard some rumors about flying mounts and a looking for group function which teleports said players straight into the instance. Why even bother adding world PvP if you're going to add these...? It ruins everything that is World PvP. I hate to bring WoW into this, but doesn't everyone remember those massive world wars that would happen when too many people got ganked and they'd complain in cities? Tarren Mill was a prime example of this. Those 24/7 wars. And before people start complaining or saying GOOD who wants that, there were always PVE servers where you would actually have to flag your self for World PvP OR there was always a way to get around someone ganking you and camping you, like spawning several meters away around a tree or in a cave and using your hearth stone (teleports you to your last INN you rested at) before they found you or even use the spirit healer to resurrect you and travel to a different zone to quest. Please tell me these things (flying mounts and LFG) aren't in the game or it will just turn into dead leveling zones where you can never feel that sense of dread when you see another player, "Is he higher than me? Is he stronger? Can I beat him if he attacks me? If I attack this monster will he attack me? Should I try run?" It made the game more interesting and gave you much, MUCH more interesting memories. Try and tell me that current MMO's, specifically WoW with it's flying mounts and LFG functions gave you great memorable moments in world PvP akin to the old style of those massive battles. Hell, even gathering a group was half of the fun. Gather a 5 man group, all traveling to said instance, it's in contested area, fight off hordes of other players also trying to get to the dungeon, barely making it to the dungeon.

    Anyway, I was hoping we could discuss this, pleasantly, no abuse.
  2. Vunak

    Vunak Cupcake-About-Town

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  3. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Too many assumptions are being made.....kinda tired of this....

    This is something i've been saying a couple of times now.
    Some people are just clinging to things of the past!

    First of all, indeed don't bring WoW into this subject. Why not?

    Because:
    1. WoW was never built (from the beginning aka vanilla) for flying mounts!
    2. Neither did WoW for the Teleporting to dungeons.

    These things came over the time, as to Wildstar is building their game AROUND these concepts!!! Therefore they can have many more changes/things that can make these 2 things not a problem but a bonus to the game!

    That flying mounts <REDACTED>ed up WoW doesn't mean it is a bad concept!
    Saying it will ruin OWPvP before is has been implemented to a game, is the biggest failure in it's own!

    It's like saying to yourself you will never be able to make it, then ofcourse your chances will drop ALOT!

    Think possitive! Don't get cought in that downward spiral!

    Instead of saying these things ruin OWPvP, try come up with idea's how to implement these 2 features with retaining a good OWPvP.

    Games evolve! And so should we, staying with old idea's of how games should be can be really bad. Instead we should all work on evolving the games and make it even better!
  4. TeoH

    TeoH Well-Known Cupcake

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    Do you believe that the zerg of level 60 players throwing themselves against each other in Hillsbrad existed because level 60 players were just coincidentally travelling through Hillsbrad in order to get to a dungeon, and found themselves in the middle of a big PvP clash by chance? They had no intention of being involved with a big fight in a level 20 zone, they just had no way of teleporting to UBRS, and had decided to travel from Undercity instead... on foot. Yea?

    Hillsbrad has nothing to do with the dungeon finder or flying mounts, people lined up to fight each other because it was the only form of PvP available in the game, and when given the opportunity to do it in a structured setting with fair teams and an actual goal, practically everyone decided they'd rather be in a BG or Arena instance than facerolling into eachother infront of Southshore.

    The ability to teleport to a dungeon doesn't prevent players from fighting in the world, what prevents players from fighting in the world is the fact that given the choice of running around the world killing each other with no incentive or doing it in a structured fashion inside an instance, there are so few people interested in fighting in the open world that open world PvP isn't sustainable as a game type. That part of the game can only exist if you push people who aren't looking for world pvp into a situation where they become unwilling victims for those who are. This is why you're asking for the removal of those features, because open world PvP isn't popular enough to support itself, you have to force people into it.

    During Vanilla pre-BGs, I spent almost all of my non-raiding free time running around certain areas and killing people, over and over again. The original honour system rewarded grinding on people in the world in order to receive gear and vanity titles. I avoided Hillsbrad as I was solo, and preferred smaller fights where I could beat people down myself for the maximum honour reward. I wandered outside BRM and the Chillwind point to Scholomance area, and I jumped groups of people questing or heading to instances. Before BGs were released I had the highest honour on the server, and have a contest winner's tabard to show for it. But...

    Here's the thing about world PvP that makes it appealing to a lot of people who aren't interested in Arena or BGs - It's easy to dominate people in non-consensual world PvP, because it's always an asymetrical fight. If you're going out into an area with the express intention of killing people, then you are spec'd, geared and fully prepared to fight, you probably know what you're doing, and you have the massive advantage of initiative.

    Slapping down people who are in no position to compete against you makes you feel like a big man. Going 1v5 against a group of keyboard turning casuals in Green Gear of the Owl who are semi-afk with one hand in a bag of crisps and who have no idea what they're doing, and winning, makes you feel like some sort of MMO god. This is what Vanilla world PvP was like, and it's all an ego boosting illusion.

    I enjoyed myself while grinding players to fight my way up the original honour system, but i'm well aware that my enjoyment came mainly from the feeling of being at the top of a ladder (being 'special'), and came at the expense of a whole world full of victims that clearly were not there for the purposes of fighting me. They were on their way to dungeons, or picking flowers, or doing quests and I killed them repeatedly.

    People didn't zerg each other in Hillsbrad because they were forced into it, they did that because they enjoyed it, and when more interesting content was made available they moved on. If you want to re-ignite world PvP in an MMO, the way to do it is to make it more compelling, fun and interesting, not to force people who don't enjoy it into a situation where you can run around and kill them.
    Methios likes this.
  5. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    It seems as if the Op and some others are talking about the 60 v 60 battles where everyone there wanted to participate, and you are talking about powerful high levels fighting people who were not looking for a battle.

    Aren't those 2 different situations? and I think one of the big points of the no flying mounts, was traveling to and gathering outside of the BG instance like in Arathi and Ashenvale, which would put them out in the world and not inside a city.
  6. TeoH

    TeoH Well-Known Cupcake

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    My experience with the Ashenvale BG portal even with long queues was lots of jumping on scenery and practically no cross faction PvP. It seems that people preferred the BG itself, that's why they were there to begin with after all. Hillsbrad was consensual (for the 60s anyway) large group open world PvP that often hit 60v60, as a gameplay experience it was pretty much a laggier version of AV minus any of the BG goals, which is why it ultimately fell out of fashion.

    There is a point that I will concede about large group world PvP however - The guild vs guild wars at the entrance to raid portals on reset night were an interesting feature that is arguably desirable. There's something unique about that situation, as although it's open world PvP it manages to pit 2 groups of organised players with equal numbers and similar gear against each other. It's a situation that would never normally occur by itself in open world PvP, so encouraging that outside raid portals is probably an idea worth preserving. Just make sure the death/respawn mechanic still allows groups to ultimately reach the instance so that they can't be camped out of the content.

    Of course raiding didn't involve teleports in the first place so it's really just the flying mounts that are an issue there. You could solve this by simply making the area surrounding a raid portal into a no-fly zone.
  7. Brexton

    Brexton New Cupcake

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    I think a lot of these are really good points.

    I guess my experience in PvP servers involves leveling. I just like how it adds another level of complexity to PvE when you consider open world PvP. Not knowing if someone is just around the corner, evading people higher level then you, planning out how and when you are going to jump another player.

    I have a lot of positive and negative experiences in open world PvP, but I take to fun with the trolling. I know I will be rolling a PvP server, and having the feature puts Wildstar above other upcoming MMO's like ESO.

    I guess as afar as raid portals go, I don't recall them stating you go directly into the raid. You could still have to contend with a staging area outside the instance.

    P.S.
    It does :ninja:

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