Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Vyril, Dec 16, 2013.
SHUSH! you....i'm trying to let him fall for my trap, just wait for what i'm doing with his answers
Funny thing = he already made sure that no matter what he says I got him cornered
I am glad I will have all the core abilities by then, and yes you may be able to Tier one to max by then, but 31-50 can be spent finding fun combos that you COULDN'T do by Tiering up just one ability before.
For example, one ability gets a snare when at Tier 8, and another gets bonus damage to snared targets at Tier 8. BOOM new fun combo that didn't exist before [insert level above 31]
I spend 1-31 gaining my core abilities and learning the basics of my class, and 32-50 mastering those abilities, solidifying my builds, and learning new exciting ways to use them via the AMP/Tier system.
For sake of discussion.
Having a cast time.
Use of mana
You give a loaded question. What you see above is the spells being the same and different. Are they COMPLETELY different? No
But they are different. If you were to put this in the game as truly 2 spells it would be a odd. Even though you may be able to utilize them both it probably wouldn't be needed if you had a larger selection of spells to use in conjunction with spell 1 or 2. Even though having both in game using LAS could actually prove very useful. If you had a large pool of spells and also included both these spells you may find a build that favors the cast time over the larger amount of healing. Just an example with what I was given.
Even though this isn't a problem with AMPs or Tiering. These do create variants. Class expression spells are what makes a spell "different". The themes of which make a class what they are. It's what they do to make every spell they have already created as unique . It's the way the spell it's self is presented. Just because a spell has the base similarities doesn't make it the same. Adding to an already established spell doesn't create a new to spell in regard of a "base" uniqueness.
This is a little off topic all together. I'm just wondering why they chose level 31 to stop providing new spells, or is there something else we don't know. If it is the flow I'm not quite sure I like the idea.
Semantics comes into play in these types of discussion a little to negatively. I'm raising questions and discussions on the current decisions being shown. I look to only understand and contribute to the game and the community.
considering the abilities I got from wow while leveling and what abilities I use all the time.
not really. Getting a new one every other level isn't that great if you still use the level 1 ability all the time.
Then again I don't consider the ability list to be the only form of character progression either. Gearing, reputation, the levels itself are also character progression.
I'm almost positive that the ability list caps at lvl 31 just because the beta cap is lvl 35, and they condensed the unlocks in order to test everything. Also, there are additional amp-unlocked skills that will come at later levels.
I dont think its a huge deal that you stop getting abilities at 32. With a LAS each ability has to be similar in power to all the others. If you keep adding abilities, one of 2 things is likely to happen.
1. the later abilities completely outshine the earlier ones and no one uses the first set (in which case why not just have these new skills as improvements unlock through tiering)
2. the new abilities feel very simalar to the earlier ones (in which case why even have them clog up your UI)
Bottom line, is they cant introduce an uber spell that unlocks at 50 like they do in many other mmos, because then everyone ends up using it and it doesn't mesh with the LAS system they are going for.
1. Understood. If that was what would happen. Or you can design around that. It's good design that decides if that happens. It shouldn't matter when you get the spell for how effective it should be. If this is purely a test for all abilities in this beta range they'll need to spread out the abilities anyway then u will be getting that lvl 48 ability.
2. Well it's a LAS so you dont have to worry about clutter. Design your spells better so your don'thave the redundancy
It's beta. There's a solid chance the spells have been condensed for testing. And once again, it's beta.
They're an experienced team, they're not going to leave the entire mid-game without satisfying progression.
And once more for good measure: It's beta.
(I'm not the first to say this, but it does seem to be going unnoticed.)
I don't know if they're going to spread out the levels you gain Abilities at, but at Tier 4 and Tier 8 in an Ability, upgrades are unlocked. This is from the WSC Warrior page:
You continue to get points to put into tiers past level 31, and the upgrades that unlock are a lot like passives that you would unlock in an ability tree, so there's actually much more variety than it seems.
Let’s suppose that the only thing that makes character advancement not stale is getting a shiny new ability; do you actually have access to all of your abilities in W* at level 30 (or at all?)?
Your AMP accessed Abilities are powerful Abilities, at the top of their individual sectors (Assault, Support, Utility),
and according to the Devs in the Warrior Stream (Starting at the 38min mark.), AMPs are going to have different point costs, and at level 30 all you have is 25 AMP points to play with.
Now let’s suppose that a shiny new ability is not the only thing that makes character advancement not stale in W*.
Let’s suppose that adding CCs, Debuffs and Buffs to those abilities through Tiers and AMPs makes character advancement interesting. Things like a short blind added to an attack, or cannot be dazed while running when shields are at max, or reduce resistance to all damage attacks with an attack.
There are also AMPs that you do not purchase through the AMPs system such as Warrior’s Assault Radiate, which is a Damage Aura Proc, that you can only obtain in the world or through purchase from another player. Just obtaining it could makes things interesting, and there is absolutely nothing saying that you cant wait till you have access to all of your abilities before you go looking for these AMPs.
Lets suppose that experimenting with Abilities, AMPs and Tiers to get a build that works for you, makes character advancement interesting.
Lets suppose that making multiple builds (Assault, Hybrid, Support, CC, Etc.), that works for you also makes character advancement interesting.
I’m getting a sense of Déjà vu with this thread; maybe because as has been mentioned already, this thread is not really any different than your “30 Abilities Enough? More variety please!” thread. It’s just another attempt at proving that the W* Ability System is lacking, and the same arguments pro & con are being brought up.
I find it interesting that the more I argue for the W* Ability System the more variety I see in the W* Ability System.
Sounds like its not complete to me. I mean, its not actualy a bad idea to give the players a few levels to actualy tweak their stuff and be fully ready for endgame as soon as they hit but it will make leveling less fun.
Its beta, Im sure theres still a lot of stuff to come.
Funny thing is that the info I've given are exactly the numbers on the greater heal and healing touch in WoW.
2 ''different'' spells, that are almost the same. The only differences are exactly what the AMP and tiering system can bring. Hence why they can be considered ''different'' spells.
This exactly summs up your point of view....you only think a spell is different if the ''visuals'' are different.
Name of the spell
Visuals of the spell
All the other differences a spell has are completely made by the AMP and Tiering system. Spells in games aren't that different! Most of the time the number are so close to each other that without the huge difference in visuals they would be considered the same spell.
It's an illusion and you are falling for it. You really sincerely think those spells are so different (looking at all your comments). Now you are entitled to what ever you think (ofcourse), but it exactly shows on what kind of level you look at spells.
And therefore we will NEVER think the same.
If you think it's off-topic you don't get it at all (exactly what all your posts show me).
Mayby you don't get COMPLETELY different spells (no difference in visuals) after level 31, even so, you'll still get Tier and AMP points.
With those points you are able to change or add great effects to spells (change the stats of spells), these effects can be so great that in other games they are a spell on their own (see the 70% slow effect).
So it's not that you don't get anything to progress your abilities further. The tiering and AMPing points that you will get to spend will constantly make you reconsider your LAS and other decissions.
IF you can't see that it's NOT off-topic.....then you really need to think a bit more. It has way more to do with this topic then you clearly think it does. A shame you can't even see that.
They made 30 spells all unique and different even though some share similar qualities.
Why can't there be more? There can be. So all the above argument is semantics and nit picking.
Adding more abilities if designed correctly can add to the pool.
CAN! But they didn't, instead of that they have chosen to implement the tiering and AMPing INSTEAD of ''just adding'' more abilities.
Feels like you are talking to a brick wall to be honest and not like a healthy discussion since there's only one side giving arguments while the other just repeats the same stuff over and over.
Correct, Still doesn't mean I think it's the greatest choice in design to stop giving abilities after 31 and only doing teir and amps.
Don't you understand that? I think it's dumb. If they spread them out afterwards or add more later then cool.
As is. It's not very cool.
Everyone (mostly) have been giving valid points and it seems you are the only one arguing for arguments sake.
You are more then welcome to have an opinion, but so far you haven't tried to offer up any sort of solution; so you are coming across as whining.
If you have watched the Engineer stream, they were saying that through the AMP system and abilities, there are over 1,000 spell registers; that is a <REDACTED> load of balancing factors. They approached it in a wonderful way; let each class have X amount of spells, ones that they will actually use, and give them the ability to further customize those abilities.
Now true, they could spread them out over the course of 50 levels, but with 30 abilities, more with the AMP system, you are talking about a 1.66666667 ability every level, with the AMP system lets just round it to two every level, which doesn't seem like enough time to experiment with your character by the time elder game roles in. Remember, with the LAS we aren't going to be having tons of abilities to use at once, so from 32-50 we have that amount of time to combo up and experiment with what abilities suit us for what situation. That's going to be a fun, my opinion, time sink in itself up to 50, and beyond with further accumulation of AMP points.
Remember, it is only Beta, closed at that, and they are trying to figure out all the kinks. My guess is they are going to roll it out with how the abilities are set now, however, that is just speculation and i'm POSITIVE they know whats better for the game design than you or I and they def understand the complexity of creating a "balanced" game better than you or I.
Right now, we just need to focus on game breaking mechanics and hope that the current beta testers are doing their part to make a great game for the rest of us that are going to join.
You're also welcome to your opinion.
Solutions have been proposed. Please read this whole thread again.
Once again at 50 is when you will have all abilities. That is when you will switch things around to learn. You don't learn a level 50 character at level 30.
The only point I argue are the ones others bring up. So everyone is arguing, not just me. Whining? Far from it. In no way do I feel hurt, sad, or even out casted. I expect a lot from a 100 million dollar game.
Most people get rose colored glasses, I'm challenging and questioning design. I no way dislike the game or think what they're doing is bad. I just think it can be improved. Will it? Probably not doesn't mean I can't talk about it.
Heck for all we know everyone could be wrong. Both sides of the discussion don't "know".