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Your thoughts on "breakout gameplay"

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Enkidu, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. Enkidu

    Enkidu Cupcake-About-Town

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    I was wondering, am I the only one that thinks "breakout gameplay" really does not add anything to the game, and in most cases feels forced and creates the illusion of extra control / freedom?

    If I am not mistaken keystrokes for say breaking a stun, are capped, so it really adds no advantage or difference, between players, short from yay I can spam my f key. I mean cc breakers / trinkets seem to offer more control / freedom, and the added strategic value of picking what you wish to break.

    Maybe I am just stuck with ways of the old, and simply cannot see the value of this awesome new feature they are passing around known as "breakout gameplay."

    Do not get me wrong, some are cool, like disarm, but others like stun and blind one feel eh. Since I ma sure with time blind can be bypassed with addon usage that shows health bars, and the stun one does not offer much to the table. Personally it seems as all it does is simply make it so stuns duration is capped, and thus allows them to balance around it easier. I do not know.

    Unless the strokes are not capped, then I will just make a turbo macro!

    What do you guys feel about "breakout gameplay"
  2. Roadblock

    Roadblock Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'd prefer if the stun breakout was 'press and hold' (if it was going to be a single key) or alternate left-right presses (like shaking your head).

    The single-key spam for stun is a really bad mechanic, bio-mechanically as well as from a gameplay perspective.

    The other cc breakout variants I have no problem with, I think they're quite well implemented and add to the game.
    Including blind; it raises situational awareness by forcing you to keep your surroundings in your head so you know which way to sprint or dash even without looking so it actually adds gameplay value and has a skill requirement.
  3. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Even with strokes capped there is a huge difference between people.

    Sometimes in PvP I was against a person who knew when to hit it, and he came out pretty quick. While a lot of new people took 2-3 seconds to even see-think-act and pushed that F button, in which cases they lost too much time already to make it count for anything.

    Personally I like the blind one A LOT. If done correctly I think they can make it so that addons will not beneficially affect the effect of this CC.

    And if it still does, they either have to ban the addon or whatever. I liked this one the most, the confusion (left=forward, right = left etc.) is the one I hate the most. But that's just something personal, the effect itself is pretty strong.

    1 thing I would like more is ''different mini-games on different CC effect''.

    Like with a stun you have to move all directions really fast to break-out, while for blind you have to press F a lot of times, while for disarm you have to pick up your weapon (in-game) and for confusion you just have to jump a few times or whatever.

    That way people who remember all the CC effects and their buttons will not be CC'd for a long time.
  4. Enkidu

    Enkidu Cupcake-About-Town

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    People may take this out of context, but when it comes to balance I tend to not count ignorance of game mechanics in the grand scheme of things. Say while fighting people who know how to quickly react to "breakout gameplay" the effects honestly feel like fluff, lack of control and freedom.

    For the sake of everything going to stick with the stun for now, since like you mentioned blind they can ban any add-on that circumvents the intended purpose of blind.

    While fighting against other players that knew how to react I found myself just playing around the duration of the stun with the breakout. So this means while fighting say a melee on my slinger, I did not bother to fully charge my shot after the stun, I fired it early just to get the damage off.

    I do not know to me it feels like a modern troupe that is create the illusion of control and strategic value You know like classic vs modern FPS.

    Granted, trinkets did not offer much in terms of control either, but the strategic value was sort of present since you had to pick what you want to break, and keep in mind the abilities of you the person you are fighting, with your own to see if it will be possible to kill them before that next big stun if your trinket will be down. I am sure with time I will get use to it, but it was a tad annoying, when I fought people that were slow with the f spam. It felt as if I have been playing a baseball game where someone was throwing well over 160 km/h for 6 innings only to be switched with someone that barely breaks 90km/h takes time to get use to the speed difference switching back and forth.

    Of course it was nothing that resulted in a loss, but I do agree maybe if they switched it up every so often, or made it so you hold down the key instead of bashing it.
  5. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Its to offset the feeling of "I can't do anything" which so many complain about, and in that respect it does wonders.
    Kataryna likes this.
  6. GoatSlayrr

    GoatSlayrr Well-Known Cupcake

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    I love the idea.

    The execution of said idea ranges from "love" to "stupid and I macro'ed my keyboard to deal with it." All in all, from the little bit of hands on I've had with the game, I think it's a net positive addition.
  7. Enkidu

    Enkidu Cupcake-About-Town

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    Granted, I understand people do not like being stunned / lose control on their character, what I do not get is outside of what what benefit does it offer? Not sure how others feel, but from a highly competitive POV I do think this method hinders our freedom as players from a PvP PoV. In the end I guess I am in the minority that feels it removes control instead of adding it.


    This is another thing that bothers me, for stun in theory you could make macro and forget about it, no thought no control. So what are they trying to get at, if they wanted to fix that feeling of not being able to do anything.
  8. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Because perception is everything when it comes to mechanics. In general people do not like being cced, but cc performs an incredibly important game function. Do you remove cc or do you attempt to change how players look at it? Either through direct mechanics (this approach) or by fobbing them off with some sort of logic about why its needed? You are quite correct, the effects in the grand scheme are illusionary, but how is that different from a number of other mechanics? Like how "losers" are rewarded with a prize regardless as a means of getting them to continue to play? The arguments of "outgearing" and the like are largely bunk as even with gear those who won will continue to win regardless. Look at Achievements! Those are incredibly mediocre but are perceived as amazing because they have been couched in those terms.
  9. Enkidu

    Enkidu Cupcake-About-Town

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    I can see the logic and benefit behind rewarding losers, since I am of the mindset that players are content, either direct or indirect they are still content, and also have the ability to foster future content. As for the gear arguments, I do agree those are mostly baseless since in the end you are right, I do feel if we gave people that whine about gear instead of obtaining it a full set of BiS most of them would still lose badly because they lack an understanding about how the game works.

    Achievements in my opinion do not take anything away from the game, just added fluff, but this whole breakout gameplay seems to take away from my game play. Granted, some of them certainly have meaningful effects like the disarm, and confusion, but the stun, I really do not see how people buy into the whole idea it gives you freedom of your character, all it does is shorter the duration of the stun, and in reality if they did not have breakout gameplay, and changed the stun duration to that of what it would be if someone used breakout gameplay, wouldn't those players still complain about stuns?

    I am just not a fan of being able to macro a means of getting out of something, that use to require a little thought and planing. Granted, it was not much, but playing around effects I find enjoyable, put it in a TGC, or playing around cool downs in WoW arena.

    Maybe I just miss the fact that say a poor cc break could cost you the arena match, granted it was not much, but it was still something to think about. Things must change, like classic and modern FPS, like it or not I have to come to terms that the era of maze style shooters are dead, I just hope this does not behind a wide spread thing, but I do fear it will because people will buy into the illusion.
  10. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    The "spam f" we have been told is being changed in a future patch. It was alluded that this would be before launch. How far before launch is hard to say.

    Yes, if they just removed spam f and replaced it with the limited duration stun people will complain. Just like how many will complain about this system until they get used to it. Personally, I find something that shifts my focus off from the fact that I am cced by giving me something else to do as a bonus. Especially when its not something "brain taxing" so you can still follow the fight but keep your fingers busy.
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  11. CriSPeH

    CriSPeH Cupcake-About-Town

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    Personally I would rather the stun breakout be the same timed key-press(es) they use for other things in the game. Then ppl couldn't just macro it.
  12. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    It’s a <REDACTED>ing skill.
    Using Breakout is a mental skill; it requires training yourself to react, and press the right key. Even if you macro the key you still have to react and press the correct key; the game will not do it for you…at least it should not be able to.

    A good player will learn to use the mechanic to their advantage; a poor player will whine about the mechanic.
  13. RavenWind

    RavenWind Well-Known Cupcake

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    Gotta say I have liked the feel of the various Break Out Gameplays so far. I have the unique perspective of also playing some SWTOR (don't ask) for the past week or two to compare against. In SWTOR you just sit there and take it. Man it feels painful now. In WildStar I feel more like I'm reacting even with the F SPAM. Its similar to telegraphs. One would think they make the game so much easier. Just get out of the telegraph. Easier said then done under a lot of circumstances. Just SPam F or write or macro. In the midst of lining up your shot, getting out of the enemy telegraphs and what ever else is going on, its not always so easy. Since Breakout doesn't eliminate stuns, only reduces the duration even the macro will only do so much against a good opponent.
  14. Enkidu

    Enkidu Cupcake-About-Town

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    It is not really skill based, since I could just make a macro to spam my f key, it does not really require any training, it is mostly a twitch relax, like counter knife in BF4. All it does is make it so while fighting good players you base everything around the duration of the stun with the breakout in mind, and play around that.

    It creates the illusion of skill, but like liven mention it really is only their so people do not feel out of control.


    That is the point all it does is shorten the stun duration, damage will still be handed out. If they made it so they spam key changes all the time I would have less issue with it. Sometimes F, another time =, another time k etc... since then it would be harder to macro and reaction time will account for something.

    Now all I do when fighting people is assume they will react quick enough to break out and time my shots. Playing around the shorter stun requires thought, but it is not as taxing, as playing around a use of your stun breaker in arena. Since a poorly time breaker can end up in a loss. When it comes to using trinkets you have to keep in mind the opponents cool downs, your own, and the cool down of your trinket. I am also talking from a highly competitive POV. From a base level it does its job wonderfully.

    I know I could just not macro it, but why bother not to, it is not that fun or engaging for me, so I will keep my macro. I cannot wait to see the change they have in mind.

    Though I do find it funny people view a spam f as a skill and requires training. Or maybe if they did a sequence, that would be cool. Something more taxing then, spam f. Though I do get the feeling a sequence would piss more people off.
  15. RavenWind

    RavenWind Well-Known Cupcake

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    Sounds like you want to do the opposite of macro the F Spam. You need an AddOn that detects you are stunned and then randomizes or creates a random sequence from a set of predefined (unused) keys to get out. Sounds like you need to sweet talk and Addon developer.
  16. Xecks

    Xecks Cupcake-About-Town

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    i gotta chime in here and agree that the f spam is one of my very few gripes with wildstar. i mean i love the game but the f spam is just poopie doo doo.
  17. Golconda

    Golconda New Cupcake

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    I like it but I do tend to agree that any kind of button spamming can be overwhelming. I really liked the idea earlier that you have to alternate between two keys to break out. That could be a little more entertaining. Overall though, I find combat a little more engrossing.
  18. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    Spamming between 2 keys seems like a good idea to me.

    Or, just do it the old fashion way and break out of stun with a skill like Fade Out or Void Slip. :) 'Cause in Stormtalon's Lair the F press surely does nothing to save you from zapped to death... And teammates interupt can be unreliable...
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  19. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    main thing I dont like about it is that unless I am doing nothing, anticipating a stun, I never seem to get out of it in time. i get out before I die in most cases while leveling, but there are many mobs, those worms especially, that I just cat seem to avoid getting hit by.

    and pvp is so out of control, I usually get obliterated before I can spam out of it .. unless 3 ppl are healing me.

    idk I mean in theory, anything is better than just eating a stun, but ... that being said, this isn't better by much :|
  20. Kalmander

    Kalmander Well-Known Cupcake

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    I have not played beta, but the breakout mechanics sound awesome... Except, the spam F one, it does not sound so awesome. I get the idea, but just hitting F sounds weird. If anything, I would change it to spam any key. So we start spamming roll, or a skill or something, and it would be fun to actually break out of stun, and do that attack, or roll into more enemies, or some action we were not really planning to do... It also makes it much easier to activate.

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